Author Topic: Royal Navy ensigns  (Read 452 times)

Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Royal Navy ensigns
« on: Friday 21 June 19 21:53 BST (UK) »
   While researching a flag which hangs in a local church, I discovered that the White Ensign was designated for R.N. use only, in 1864, the Red Ensign to be used by the Merchant Navy.
   I have a picture embroidered by my naval gr grandfather, presumed to be one of his ships, but on checking I find it is flying the Red Ensign. I also found a reference to the "3 squadrons" flying red, white or blue ensigns according to various circumstances. Pre-1864? Can someone help me on the 3 squadrons part? It just might help me identify the ship!
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

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Online KGarrad

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 22 June 19 07:15 BST (UK) »
There were (are?) 3 Admirals in the Navy, each in charge of a squadron:
Red Admiral, White Admiral and Blue Admiral.

So those ships under the command of an Admiral flew the relevant coloured ensign.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured_squadrons_of_the_Royal_Navy
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

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Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 22 June 19 10:28 BST (UK) »
  Good morning, KG. I will come back and study that later. Thank you.
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Offline Regorian

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 22 June 19 11:51 BST (UK) »
I'd been wondering about the progression of naval ensigns. The Link kindly provided shows ensigns like post 1864 (one source says 1861) starting in 1707. May have been only carried on the main mast of admirals, not as the main colours on the mizzen mast, ie the rear. Trouble is I have seen, apparently contemporary prints and paintings, from long before 1864 (1861) with an otherwise modern ensign.

Nelson was Vice Admiral of the White at Trafalgar. 
Griffiths Llandogo, Mitcheltroy, Mon. and Whitchurch Here (Also Edwards),  18th C., Griffiths FoD 19th Century.

Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 22 June 19 21:48 BST (UK) »
  Is there any way of finding out which squadron a ship was in? Specifically the Juno in 1853, when she went to Australia? Would she even have been part of a squadron? Captain was Stephen Fremantle.
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 23 June 19 02:11 BST (UK) »
If you search for "Juno Fremantle " on the National Archives site, you'll find the Centre of Bucks Studies have a ton of stuff from the papers of Captain Fremantle
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline Regorian

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 23 June 19 07:44 BST (UK) »
  Is there any way of finding out which squadron a ship was in? Specifically the Juno in 1853, when she went to Australia? Would she even have been part of a squadron? Captain was Stephen Fremantle.

There is this:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Juno_(1844).

Not confirmed but I did read that detached ships carried the red ensign.
Griffiths Llandogo, Mitcheltroy, Mon. and Whitchurch Here (Also Edwards),  18th C., Griffiths FoD 19th Century.

Offline Top-of-the-hill

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 23 June 19 19:57 BST (UK) »
  Thanks Steve, I have seen the Fremantle papers and extracted a lot of information about Juno's Australian trip, mainly from his letters. They confirmed a story from my gr grangdfather about the Kuria Muria Islands - now called something else I think.
   
   Regorian - as mentioned above, I have learned quite a lot about the Juno, but had not read that particular article. The piece about the enquiry into the loss of Juno/Atalanta confirms something else he said - that she was quite unsuitable as a training ship and was hard to handle for experienced men. In fact we understood that he had given this information, but it did not appear in the record of the enquiry.
   Would Juno be classed as "detached" on that voyage?
Pay, Kent
Codham/Coltham, Kent
Kent, Felton, Essex
Staples, Wiltshire

Online KGarrad

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Re: Royal Navy ensigns
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 23 June 19 20:39 BST (UK) »
The Khuriya Muriya Islands (or Kuria Muria, or Curia Muria) are a group of five islands in the Arabian Sea, 40 km (25 mi) off the southeastern coast of the Sultanate of Oman.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)