Author Topic: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question  (Read 2043 times)

Offline elvisthelurcher

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Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« on: Friday 28 June 19 10:32 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

I was wondering if any Merthyr / Vaynor people could help me out please?

My 2nd Great Grandfather, Edward Nicholls was sadly killed on 11th February 1896 in a rock fall at Vaynor Quarry.
In a report from The Merthyr Times on Thursday 13 Feb 1896, it quotes Edward as living at a homestead called 'Rhiwlas' on Cilsanws mountain.

"Mr Edward Nichols, of Rhiwlas, a lonely homestead on the height of Kilsanos Mountain" (Cefn Cilsanws).
"Desolate home on the bleak brow of Kilsanos Mountain".


I can't for the life of me find any record or trace of this homestead, and I was wondering if anyone with local knowledge might be able to enlighten me?
The only possible location I have found is just north of 'Blaen-y-glais', but seems to be called 'Tyn-y-fedw'.
I imagine it was deserted pretty much immediately after this date as he left behind 9 children with no mother or father!

Many thanks in advance!

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #1 on: Friday 28 June 19 15:56 BST (UK) »
Hi there and welcome to Rootschat!

Cilsanws is now a golf course, and as you know, was previously quarried extensively.  I'll have a look later at the old maps of the area to see if I can find anything of use to you. 
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #2 on: Friday 28 June 19 17:04 BST (UK) »
Looking at the OS 6 inch map for 1888- 1913 there looks to be a small homestead called Penrhiw-glais.  Rhiw is Welsh for hill, penrhiw is 'top of the hill'.  I've posted the link below to the side by side georeferenced maps  from The National Library of Scotland, showing the site.  However, the newspaper report seems to imply that the homestead was up on the mountain, whereas this area is lower down - albeit still wild.  The railway station you can see on the map is now The Brecon Beacons Mountain Railway, which runs pleasure trips into the mountains.  Let me know if the link doesn't work and I'll post a screenshot.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=51.7811&lon=-3.3887&layers=171&right=BingHyb
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline elvisthelurcher

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 29 June 19 11:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Greensleeves, thanks for your reply.

I've just been over the 1891 Census, and he is listed as living at 'Heol Laes' which I also can't find on any map!

However, on that 1891 schedule it is between 'Blaen-y-glais' and 'Cym Moel', so I am pretty sure that it must be the building named 'Tyn-y-fedw' on the map, as that is the only building in that area.

I'm just not sure why there would be 3 different names for the same homestead!!

Thanks again for your help, the mystery continues!


Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 29 June 19 12:14 BST (UK) »
On the 1888-1913 map I referred to above, there is an un-named building between Blaen-y-glais and Ty'n-y-fedw at grid ref SO 03751097 which could be it.    As far as the names you have - Rhiwlas and Heol Laes - they could in theory be the same place as 'las' or 'glas' is 'green'.  Rhiw is hill in Welsh whilst Heol is a road, path or way.  So the name in translation might be either Green Hill or Green Way.  If you look on the modern aerial photo at that spot you can see it was an enclosure of some type at one time, as shown on the old map.
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Sam Swift

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 29 June 19 14:21 BST (UK) »
He is buried at Vaynor Churchayrd county of Brecon (entry no. 446). The entry says Edward Nicholls killed at vaynor Quarry, was buried on February 15th aged 52. His abode was Ty'n y bedw.

Offline elvisthelurcher

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 29 June 19 22:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Sam,

Thanks for that information, that’s really helpful. Is there anywhere that I can access those details at all?

Thanks again

Offline Sam Swift

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 29 June 19 22:56 BST (UK) »
Family Search LDS site has a partial transcription.

Offline vaynor71

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Re: Merthyr Tydfil / Vaynor / Cefn Cilsanws question
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 10 September 19 12:36 BST (UK) »
The story of Edward Nicholls and his family is very sad. Edward died tragically alongside fellow worker Matthew Berryman in a rock fall at Vaynor Quarry 10th February 1896. Edward was a widower, his wife Ellen died only 18 months before. The couple had 9/10 children the older of which found work locally after Edwards death, whilst some of the younger children were taken in at a local farm where life was not rosy.

I have some notes on Edward Nicholls which I made several years
ago when going through census and parish records for some research on for Vaynor , essentially they are just pencil jottings but hope they help.

Also I dont know if you are aware but there is an excellent website on the
history of the Berryman family which gives an account of Matthew
Berryman who died in the same accident and includes the sobering report of the accident from the
Merthyr Times February 13th 1896. berryman.uk.com/matthew.htm

These are the notes I have for Edward Nicholls.  I hope they help in
some small way.
Edward Nicholls Born C 1844 Devon. Died  Tragically at Vaynor Quarry
10th Feb 1896. Buried Vaynor Churchyard 15th February 1896.

Edward Married Ellen Born abt 1847 Devon. Ellen was buried in Vaynor
Churchyard 19th May 1894.

1891 Edward, Ellen and children lived at
Heol Las /Rhiwlas /Tyn Y Bedw Vaynor, Heol Las is situated between Cwmmoel Farmstead  and
Blaenyglais Farm.
Children of Edward and Ellen Nicholls.
William Born about1873 Ilfracombe.
Walter B abt1875 Cornwall.
Eliza Jane B abt 1877 Ilfracombe.
Emily B abt1880 Kettering Northants.
Frank B1882Coleford Glos.
Ruth B abt 1884 Cole ford Glos.
John B abt1886 Cardiff.
Mary B1888 Llantwitfadre.
Isabella Ellen B1890 Vaynor.

According to the the Merthyr Times 'Edward lived at Rhiwlais, a lonely
homestead on the height of Kilsanws mountain'.  The parish burial
records for Edward 15th February 1896 however list his address as
Ty'nybedw. The 1891 census lists Edward, Ellen and their children at
Heol Lais, I know the area and believe Ty'nybedw and Heol Las are the same dwelling but
given different names as they only appear independently on the census with the repeated farms either side.,  there’s also a large variation in spellings
from T y'n Bedu , Tyn Tyn Fedw , Bedw and Heol Las, Heol Lais.
Burial Record for Edward Nicholls in the Vaynor Parish Registers.
Nicholls. Edward. Killed at Vaynor Quarry. Address Ty'nybedw.

The Vaynor parish records also have a burial record for Ellen 19th May
1894 age 47 Address Heol Las.
other records from the parish registers for the Nicholls family are
Baptism record for Isabella Ellen Nicholls 24th November 1889,
Father forename Edward, Mother Forename Ellen address Heol Las late
Devon.
Marriage record  5th August 1900  Walter Nickolls age 21, Fathers
forename Edward. Deceased. Bride Eliza Sharman age 24. Fathers
Forename George. Deceased.
*Marriage record 9th April 1899 Eliza Jane Nicholl age 23 Fathers
forename Edward. Deceased. Groom John Griffiths age 23. Fathers
Forename John. Deceased.

Edward was a widower when he died in 1896, his wife Ellen sadly died 18 months previously and life must have been very hard for Edward and it was desperately sad when he died so tragically  leaving so many children. The Rev. J Edmund Jenkins recror of Vaynor who  would have officiated at the
funerals of both Ellen and Edward and would have known them and the children. I am sure it must have hit a chord with the Rev Jenkins whose wife Ruth died in 1889 aged 47 same age as Ellen Nicholls and he took 3 of the orphans in at the rectory.

Hope this helps
vaynor71