Author Topic: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.  (Read 222 times)

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 14:10 BST (UK) »
What I should have asked first is: Are you trying to find the parents of the boy who was baptized in 1902, or are you tracing the family in Orange, NJ, in 1900, and wondering if that was their son?

If the second, then you can disregard all my other posts, since RJ137 answered your question.

Reference thread:  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=815010.0

Clear as mud :). I hope the family baptism certificate was one handed down in the family from Patrick Edward himself, and not one found by an earlier family researcher, or that there was reliable family information that Patrick Edward had been born in the US.
Other than that, I think the best that grizzly1 will do in Jersey City is say that Patrick Edward's father was probably one of the men in the 1902 or 1903 city directory. Even then, there were so many Irish in NJ and if, like my family in Cleveland, they kept moving around (to stay ahead of the rent man?), he might not even be one of them.

I've been avoiding the Irish boards lately, so I think I have done all I can do for P.E. Burns.
Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

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Offline oldohiohome

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 15:16 BST (UK) »
I found 3 Patrick Burns who died in Jersey City from 1901 to 1910 old enough to have a child in 1902. All buried in Holy Name Cemetery. There may have been more who were buried in a cemetery not on findagrave. I didn't find a New Jersey Deaths database, so there is no way of knowing how many others there were. If that was the only Catholic cemetery in Jersey City, then this list might be enough. Google "Catholic Cemeteries, Jersey City."

If any of these are your man, it might be the first. He would have been 21 when Patrick Edward was born. You could try eliminating the other two by looking for their widows and families in 1910, assuming they didn't remarry, die, move, or go back to Ireland.

1881 - May 1907
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/148137264
doesn't seem to be in Jersey City in 1900

1876 - Dec 1902
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/148137262
could be the man on Spruce Street in 1900

1863 - Nov 1909
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/148137259
could be the man on Johnson Avenue in 1900
Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

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Offline RJ137

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 17:06 BST (UK) »
I found 3 Patrick Burns who died in Jersey City from 1901 to 1910 old enough to have a child in 1902. All buried in Holy Name Cemetery. There may have been more who were buried in a cemetery not on findagrave. I didn't find a New Jersey Deaths database, so there is no way of knowing how many others there were. If that was the only Catholic cemetery in Jersey City, then this list might be enough. Google "Catholic Cemeteries, Jersey City."

If any of these are your man, it might be the first. He would have been 21 when Patrick Edward was born. You could try eliminating the other two by looking for their widows and families in 1910, assuming they didn't remarry, die, move, or go back to Ireland.

1876 - Dec 1902
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/148137262
could be the man on Spruce Street in 1900


I'm not seeing a "Burns" born in 1902 with the parents Patrick & Mary. There is Patrick & Annie and one with a Julia, but no Mary.

https://archive.org/details/NJ_Birth_Index_1902_A-J/page/n117

I see 2 deaths for a Patrick Burns in 1902. One has notation (J.C.) which I assume is Jersey City. That could be the 1863 - Nov 1909 Patrick listed. The other Patrick listed has notation (New.) which I assume is Newark.

https://archive.org/details/NJ_Death_Index_1902/page/n31

I see no Patrick Burns for 1903. They only have online death records available for 1901-1903 in the 1900's time frame.

Offline grizzly1

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 17:26 BST (UK) »
First I have to say I really appreciate the time/effort you are putting in in order to clear the 'muddy water's' :)

Let me attempt to clarify the Burns story and perhaps it may help.
This is basically all we know at moment and a lot more than we knew this time last week.

The N.J Baptismal cert of Patrick Edward D.O.B 30 May 1902 was all his family had, the story goes he was born in America, and returned to Ireland when his Father died and his mother remarried, I dont know at what age but he joined the Irish Free State army who I have been in touch with, and am waiting for his enlistement paper's to be forwarded on.

I know that Patrick married in 1936 and at this time he was still in the Army, the archivist did give me some details as to who his next of kin was, obviously his wife along with another name Mrs Mary O'Loughlin, this has me now thinking that this Mary may very well be Patricks Mother's 'new' surname, which would confirm the story she remarried. 

It's thought by an elderly family member that she may have married in the US before returning to Co Clare at some later stage.

On the 1936 Marriage cert for Patrick it states his father Patricks profession as 'Boilermaker', this I was hoping would narrow down the search, especially as it was basically a 'Trade' ?

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 19:26 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the added information, it sounds like Patrick was old enough to return to Ireland on his own when his father died and his mother remarried, unless the story was embellished a bit. And when you find out the year of his enlistment, and where, that will be a big help.
Did Patrick Edward Burns have any siblings? Where were they born? Do you know where his parents married?

-------
My guess is that the sponsors at his baptism were Mary Leonard's brother and his wife, since she wouldn't have a sister with the same name as herself.

This is grasping at straws and doesn't provide much information anyway, but in case both Patrick (Sr) and Patrick Leonard (sponsor at the baptism) were boilermakers. Besides, this man's wife's name was Julia but there is a "daughter" in the house named Mary. The numbers for her, Patrick, and Julia's children don't really "add up"

1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1906 Jersey City City Directories
Patrick Leonard, boilermaker, 48 Bright Street
he's not in Jersey City in 1908 unless he moved and changed occupations

also for him

1900 Census, Jersey City
48 Bright Street

Leonard
  Patrick, 37, boilermaker, born Ireland, arrived 1881, naturalized, married 15 years
  Julia, 39, wife, Ireland, arrived 1880, married 15 years, 12 children, 3 alive
  Katey 14, daughter, New Jersey
  Francis, 11, daughter, New Jersey
  Mary, 22, daughter, New Jersey, married for 2 years, 2 children, 2 alive
 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9JR-F3F

-------
but no Patrick Burns, boilermaker, in 1900 or 1902 in Jersey City
1900 Jersey City City Directory
Patrick Burns
  bartender 1 Hoboken Avenue
  checker, 234 6th
  peddler 218 2nd
  Patrick F, bartender 246 Wayne
  Patrick J, cigars, 594 Grand, house at 582 Grand

1901 Jersey City City Directory
Patrick Burns
  laborer
    639 Grove
    129 Union
    443 York
    177 13th
    cigars, 592 Grand, 593 Grand
    of Brown & Burns, 747 Newark Avenue


Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 19:48 BST (UK) »
What part of Co. Clare is the family from and/or what part did Mary (Leonard) Burns maybe-O'Loughlin return to? Name of the townland, village, etc., anything to localize it to narrow down where to look for records.

Which reminds me, have you tried on the Co Clare Genealogy group on Facebook? I posted something there once and within a few hours they had the man's parents, birth record, US naturalization and what all. All I had was his age, place of death, a US census or two, and a letter he got postmarked Ennis, Co. Clare.
Cambridgeshire: Billups, Cropley; Derbyshire: Jenkinson, Gratton; Co Down: O'Rourke, Rodgers, Cunningham

Offline grizzly1

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Re: St Patrick's church Jersey City Baptism 1902.
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 03 July 19 22:36 BST (UK) »
What part of Co. Clare is the family from and/or what part did Mary (Leonard) Burns maybe-O'Loughlin return to? Name of the townland, village, etc., anything to localize it to narrow down where to look for records.

Which reminds me, have you tried on the Co Clare Genealogy group on Facebook? I posted something there once and within a few hours they had the man's parents, birth record, US naturalization and what all. All I had was his age, place of death, a US census or two, and a letter he got postmarked Ennis, Co. Clare.
I did have a look at the 1911 census for Clare to check for a Mary Burn with Patrick/Edward but no luck, I also checked for marriages in the area with Mary Burns, I came up with 1 but her father was listed as Burn's so that was dismissed, the district/parish was Ballyvaughan.

As you correctly say the content's of the Army records should help out, though the archivist told me that the DOB didnt match up, But this wasnt unusual, most likely cause that he was 'possibly' underage...so basically we are at a standstill until we have that info.

The fact that Patrick Leonard was a 'boilermaker' adds interest, perhaps Patricks father and he were 'workmates' ?