Help needed with 8th Army Signals abbreviations please

[tyshapuzzle]

Hello all

I have received copies of the service record for my Grandfather George and I am rather confused by many of the abbreviations but mostly I am curious about where he went and what he did really.

I see that he started with the 4th L of C Signals (which I think might stand for Lines of Communication?) as a driver but later trained as a signalman. I find this interesting because upon his return to civilian life he joined the GPO and worked as a telephone engineer, whereas before the war he worked as a driver for a funeral director so his army service must have equipped him well for the future.

I would really appreciate any help anyone could offer about the war my Grandad had.

Thank you in advance

[MaxD]

For precise locations, only the various units war diaries would help, an expensive business!
In outline though the first sheet is giving us:

As you have noted, it starts with him in 4 Lines of Communication Signals at Colwyn Bay re-mustering (changing trades) to driver i/c (driver internal combustion which distinguished him from for example a horse transport driver or steam vehicle driver) and then going with them to North Africa.
5 Oct 1940 embarks for a theatre of war arriving at Base Depot Egypt (Alexandria) and is with 4 L of C Sigs by 25 Nov 1940.  The campaign in N Africa had been under way since June 1940 and the entries to the bottom of the sheet in March 1945 are covering his service in the communications system between the rear supply areas and headquarters and the forward elements  in the Western desert (Libya and Egypt) campaign, then the Tunisia campaign and then (perhaps) the invasion of Sicily and the Italian campaign.  The detailed entries:
The two bracketed entries in 1941 are him in hospital (in N Africa somewhere!) and while there is placed, for administrative purposes on the X 2 list which is a way of accounting for him away from his unit.
The May 1943 entries are him moving to 8th Army Signals (similar tasks as with L of C) and going up a bit in the classification ladder. Significantly they are in the run up to the invasion of Sicily (H Force).  The August 1943 stamp relates to him (and his unit) now not under the Middle East Force and now under the British North African Force (the documentation didn’t always keep up with the facts!)
Another short spell in hospital in Aug/Sep 1943 and a change of trade to signalman.
The Africa Star and the 8th Army clasp that went with it for him recognises his service during the 1940-1943 in N Africa.
In March 1945 he has done over 4 years overseas (that is indicated by the word PYTHON) and was ready for a home posting so he is posted away from 8 Army Sigs to 3 Transit camp and we can’t tell which one.
A problem here is that there was 3 Transit Camp in N Africa and in Italy.  He doesn’t seem to have the Italy Star and his document doesn’t have the abbreviation CMF (Central Mediterranean Force) which would indicate he was in Italy after BNAF so one would need to find out the specific movement of 8th Army Signals during the 43-45 dates. 
He is back in UK in Thirsk at the end of March 1945, goes on leave and in Jun 1945 is posted there to 5 Anti Aircraft Group Signals Unit (Mixed).
From there in Sep 1945 he is posted again to 55 Infantry Division (a reserve division).

Sheet two in due course.

MaxD


 

[tyshapuzzle]

MaxD this is amazing thank you so much. I never expected so much detail. You are very kind.
I have a rather silly question: what did a signalman actually do?
His home leave in 1945 explains how he managed to marry my grandma in April 1945 at home in Barrow in Furness!   

[MaxD]

There were a number of trades in the Royal Signals.  The driver bit is obvious I think but as a signalman he could have been a wireless operator or a lineman (up a pole keeping the telegraph lines going) or a despatch rider or a switchboard operator.  Lots of detail at this link:
 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o0t/ 

MaxD

[MaxD]

His home leave in 1945 explains how he managed to marry my grandma in April 1945 at home in Barrow in Furness!

The army didn't give him much time with his new wife because (now sheet two)
Line one is a repeat of his posting to 55 Infantry Division in Sep 1945 and then in Oct 1945(2nd and 3rd line) he is sent on a draft (large party of men) with the code letters RMH (something, the letters don't mean anything so what the last one(s) is/are is irrelevant) to 53 Reinforcement Holding Unit in the British Army of the Rhine (in Germany) to await a proper posting.  Arrives 2 Oct 1945 .  The X 4 bit is again an administrative thing as he hasn't got a proper posting yet.

On 15 Oct he is posted from 53 RHU to what looks like B Corps B Signals which is a unit designation I am not familiar with but if someone knows (rather than guesses) fine otherwise I'll seek advice elsewhere (I know a man who knows!)

He remains there until 3 March 1946 when he embarked North West Europe for UK and is Struck off Strength (cease to belong to) BAOR and is released from the army finally.

MaxD

[tyshapuzzle]

Again thanks MaxD.
My Dad dug out George's medals and he has an Africa Star with 8th army clasp as you said. He also has an Italy star and a 1939-1945 star and war medal.
Forgive my ignorance but if I went to TNA to look at the unit war diaries what/which units do I need? Are the diaries likely to tell me how he got to these various places? Some sort of transport convoy I assume?

[MaxD]

Glad you found the Italy Star because that means in total N Africa, Sicily, Italy and home from there.  then a short time in Germany.  A pretty good service record.

Draft to N Africa by troopship.  4 Lof C will have taken all their vehicles earlier and when they, and later 8th Army Sigs moved they would move not necessarily all together but in packets of a number of vehicles.  To Sicily by landing craft and again Sicily to Italy mainland.

I'll get back about diaries.

MaxD

[tyshapuzzle]

I read somewhere that PYTHON refers to the bringing of men who had done 4 years overseas service back to home service for the remainder of the war, which fits George, but then he was sent back to Germany? In your experience was this common?

[MaxD]

Not quite "at home for the rest of the war" but "home leave after 4 years overseas etc".  He could equally well have found himself in a home unit but in his case, luck of the draw, he went to BAOR.  His demobilisation date depended on a formula based on his age, his years of service and his years of overseas service and although the war had ended before he was posted to Germany, from his record we see that his demob date wasn't until 1946 (there were still men being demobbed in 1947).

Diaries - the best approach is indeed to go to Kew yourself although there are some dilemmas.  Taking 4 LofC Signals first.  This link
 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_srt=3&_ep=4+Line+of+Communication+Signals&_cr=WO+169&_dss=range&_ro=any&_p=1925&_st=adv
to the war diaries covering October 1940 to May 1943 shows that there are a number of companies within 4 LofC so ignore the ones with "company" in the title.  That leaves:
WO 169/422, /1968, /5556, /11104.  It is highly unusual for individual soldiers to be mentioned in war diaries although on the face of it, a company diary might do.  We don't know which one he served with so unless you'd have to devote days to looking at the ones for the companies and then most likely not find anything. The top level diaries will at least give an idea of where they were operating and when.

Copying the diaries is an expensive process http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/record-copying-prices-february-2019.pdf (£8.40 for a page check then £1.40 per page if you go ahead).  There are reliable services that can do the same thing for much less).

I need to do some more work on the other main units from May 43 onwards.

MaxD