Author Topic: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s  (Read 204 times)

Offline Ian Nelson

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James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« on: Monday 08 July 19 14:23 BST (UK) »
I'm struggling to trace my great grandfather James Cathcart, if indeed he was still with my great grandmother Ann Maria Cathcart nee Mitchell in 1883 as my grandfather Albert Edward Cathcart was born in 1884 at Freshwater, Isle of Wight and spent his youth in Workhouses and his mother died a pauper in 1885 aged 27.  If indeed he was not the father of Albert Edward then his offspring should maybe have changed their surname to Wilson, bit late now though as they are all dead, still, it matters.  Thanks, Ian Nelson

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Offline MaxD

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #1 on: Monday 08 July 19 15:00 BST (UK) »

He signed for the Scots Guards in 1876 but served only until March 1877 when he "was given up as a deserter to the RA on 28 March 1877.  This implies that he has deserted at some time from the RA, signed on with the Scots Guards, was found out and returned to the RA.  I find no RA record though.

Do you have Albert Edward's birth cert?  I don't find him in FreeBMD or IoW births.

MaxD
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Offline Jebber

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #2 on: Monday 08 July 19 17:09 BST (UK) »
Albert is registered as Albert William, not Albert Edward.
Isle of Wight, July qtr, 1884 vol 02B, Page 655.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline MaxD

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #3 on: Monday 08 July 19 17:19 BST (UK) »
OK do you have the cert which should confirm his father. 

The info you gave doesn't really make clear where James Wilson comes into this?

MaxD
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Offline Ian Nelson

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #4 on: Monday 08 July 19 19:28 BST (UK) »
Thanks folks.  The Isle of Wight Family History Society is an excellent Free source for the island.  I obtained the Marriage Certificate from the Records Office for James Cathcart to Ann Maria Mitchell Nov 1874 at Freshwater.  I will attach a copy. 1875 they name their first child George Wilson Cathcart, 1877 Alfred James, 1879 Kate Louisa, 1884 Albert William ( later Edward). Ann Maria dies in 1885.  Alfred James and Albert W or E are in the Union Workhouse at Parkhurst in 1891 but Alfred James names his first son Albert Edward in honour of his younger brother.  St.Faith's home lists Kathayne Cathcart in 1891 but this is Kate Louisa Cathcart / Cousins / Freeman.  At her wedding she names her father as James or John Wilson, not Cathcart.
The strange thing is if you enter a James Cathcart search for the 1881 Census it shows the family at High Street, South Shoebury, Essex, the Army Gunnery range nearby, but HEAD is James Wilson of Kendal, not Cathcart.  Isle of Wight census 1891 shows Alfred James as being born at Shoeburyness but this is incorrect, it was definitely Freshwater.  The children and mother are frequently in the workhouses and Ann Maria is listed as a pauper, so where is James Wilson or James Cathcart?
Desertion was punished how ??? I have found other James Cathcarts who match his profile but cannot pin it down, 2 of them as marriages and 1 as being in the USA/ Canada from 1880 and gaining Naturalisation in 1900.   Not being judgemental but if he had legged it before 1882 he couldn't have fathered Albert Edward Cathcart, so who did ?  Why is he not with his original family at Alloa for the 1871 Census but is nearby under the name Catticart ?

Offline Ian Nelson

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #5 on: Monday 08 July 19 19:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks MaxD,  The desertion makes some sense.  When he married in Nov 1874 at Freshwater his camp was next to Norton Green, Freshwater, the home of Ann Maria Mitchell.  Unless born prematurely George Wilson Cathcart was already a bun in the oven at the wedding.  Perhaps he married without the Army's permission which would mean she couldn't travel with him to other postings thus if he was due to be posted to the Gunnery School at Shoeburyness and she was pregnant with Alfred James (b.1877) and later she was pregnant again with Kate Louisa.  Given her mother died in 1885 who told her that her father was James Wilson?
Did they get a Bounty for Enlisting in the Scots Guards in 1876?
I would love to know exactly when he deserted, both times.  thanks again, Ian

Online Rosinish

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #6 on: Monday 08 July 19 20:43 BST (UK) »
"Not being judgemental but if he had legged it before 1882 he couldn't have fathered Albert Edward Cathcart, so who did ?  Why is he not with his original family at Alloa for the 1871 Census but is nearby under the name Catticart ?"

You don't mention his age for 1871 in Alloa nor who with or relationship to the head of household?

I would suggest you buy the original as there is no entry on SP for a 'Catticart'?

I think it's quite obvious the stroke across the 'T' has blurred the next letter 'H'

Annie

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Offline Ian Nelson

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 July 19 00:27 BST (UK) »
Thanks Annie. Over the past ten years of searching I have got so used to all the variations of Cathcart that if Soundex is available I select it.  I have transcribed records in the past including medieval documents, even handwritten Secretary Hand, so I'm well used to the errors in transcriptions and phonetic spelling and even Optical Character Mis-Reading as is common with Google Book Scanning.  All the Essex Cathcarts re to be found under Kithcart, Kithcartt, Cuthcort, Catheart and yes, Catticart.  Even hunting my mother's marriage details was made difficult because it was transcribed as Cathcort.
I spent years trying to locate John & Jane Cathcart and family after the 1861 Census at Kendal but never thought of Scotland until an Expert @ Rootschat found them at Alloa, Clackmannanshire, in the 1871 Census, but minus James.  As an afterthought I re-entered it as Cathcart with Soundex etc! and lo and behold there is James Catticart aged 17 but listed on his own without an address.  His family were at 31 Broad Street and if he was in the same house he would have been listed with them even with a different surname.  He enlisted at Southampton in 1871 in the Royal Artillery as a Bombardier and in 1874 married at Freshwater.  However, he deserted and re-enlisted in 1876 at London in the Scots Guards but was found out in 1877 and returned to the RA.  As I said before, my grandfather Albert Edward Cathcart was born in 1884 at Freshwater but according to his sister Kate Louisa who was born 1879 James Wilson was her father so I suspect he might also have been AE's father.  I have a suspicion that the 2 time deserter was a 3 timer and emigrated to Canada then USA.   If so, I have no further interest in him as he is not my ancestor .... so I'll pursue James Wilson of Kendal instead, unfortunately there are 20 candidates.  Thanks for your interest though, regards, Ian

Offline Ian Nelson

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Re: James Cathcart, Scots Guards and Royal Artillery 1870s
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 July 19 12:16 BST (UK) »
Scots Guards Attestation form for 1876 for James Cathcart of Kendal has written at the top margin Height, 5' 8". plus half an inch ( not on my keyboard ).  Albert Edward Cathcart born 1884 was 6' 2" and 2 of my brothers who look unlike Nelson, Tubby or Gooch ancestors so must have Albert Edward's ominant gene for height are both taller than 6' 2".  My wife's deceased father was 5' 8" and his only son (also now deceased) was 5' 10" in his twenties.  Hardly hard evidence but makes one suspicious anyway.  Just saying.
It turns out that there were several James Wilsons of Kendal who could have been mates of James Cathcart but also there are a few - Wilson Cathcarts in Scotland and Ulster so my search in that direction continues, however I've discovered that James's mother Jane Dickinson was a Nursery maid in a Wilson home in Lancashire when she was nineteen and Lancs-OPC records show a James Dickinson born 1853 to Jane Dickinson but no Father named. In 1853 she married widower Irish John Cathcart in Preston. 
What could possibly have happened to James Cathcart if returned as a Deserter from the Scots Guards back to the Royal Artillery.   I now can't find it on my pc but years ago I came across an incident at Fulwood Barracks, Preston in 1876.
 cheers Ian