In Need Of Help 2nd Btln, Fusilier Guards - possibly! Liverpool/Scotland/London

[Horsley2016]

Hi there.

Thanks for taking a look at this post! I'm trying to prove / find out more, about my 4th and 5th great Grandfather's military details. I use Ancestry but find it really very hard to get to grips with military records as I know so little about them.

I would like to know more about their military side for interest but also, in the hope it may shed further light on locations, next of kins etc.


Henry Duncan McDonald.
Born circa 1823, possibly in Lochgilpead, Scotland.
In 1841 I *think* he is at St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex and is a Soldier in 2nd Battalion Fusilier Guards. (I take it St Martin in the Fields was a barracks?)
By 1849 he is in Liverpool, as he marries a Margaret Robinson and is now a Shipwright - something he remains all his life. He is literate (can write his name.)

Malcolm McDonald
Born circa 1799, possibly in Inverness. His Mother is possibly an Anabella...
In 1841 he is listed as living with his (assumed) Mother in Kilmallie, Inverness as an 'Army Pens' (Pensioner?)
In 1849 he is in Liverpool (assuming he is alive) and is listed as an 'Army Officer' on his Son Henry Duncan's marriage cert.


I wouldn't begin to know wars that were being fought, religions likely to have been followed etc. I know nothing of Malcolm's military history other than his title on his Son's marriage cert. It's a really poor area of background knowledge for me to be honest.

Any thoughts that can broaden my knowledge of this line would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
M

[Rosinish]

Related thread;

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=815497.msg6768170

Annie

[MaxD]

The place in 1841 is St Georges's Barracks which were in the St Martin in the Fields parish.  His regiment is what later became named the Scots Guards.  I don't see "Duncan" in the name though so are you sure he is yours?

This outline history will show what the regiment were doing in the period, nothing much basically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Scots_Guards_%281805–1913%29 although I do feel there is a need to confirm he is the one you are looking for.  Do you anything for him before Liverpool?

MaxD

[Horsley2016]

Hi Max,

He could have been a 'Henry McDonald' dropping the Duncan in youth. Some Census info drops the Duncan, but I can still be certain it is him.

 His prison record is a HM rather than HDM. With Census, dates, family ties etc I'm sure without certain it's him in 1841 St Martin in the Fields. What I can 100% be certain of is his Father is definitely one Malcolm McDonald, an 'Army Officer' when Henry marries in Liverpool in June 1849. he is definitely Scottish too!

Of course, I understand that on marriage certificates sometimes the Fathers details look as though they are living, when in fact they had died. But assumed this was more for respectability on the Brides side rather than Groom...? So, the assumption is that Malcolm was in Liverpool when they married. I can't find Malcolm on a Liverpool Census for either 1841/1851, but could find a 'tie' to 1841 Scottish Census with him an Army pensioner in Inverness...

Would it have been normal to leave the Army and become a Ships Carpenter?

Thanks for taking a look.
M

[MaxD]

There appears to be no surviving service record for Henry so we don't know how long he served.  Perfectly possible for his to have been a short engagement (hence no pension records) and his trade may have related to his pre-army work - all speculation.
He should appear in the muster rolls for the battalion https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/6?_q=muster%203rd%20Foot%20scots%20fusilier&_srt=3
and by starting at 1841 and working backwards you would find when he joined and then,  working forwards, when he left.  This can only be done at Kew, the rolls are not on line.
Throughout 1841-1849 the battalion were stationed in England.

No sign of Malcolm, no London Gazette entry (which would have promotions and appointments) others may have more luck? "Army Officer" could well be a similar thing on a marriage cert

MaxD

[Horsley2016]

Thank you so much Max D for taking a look. Suppose I was asking too much for records to survive! I have an outstanding need to visit Kew on my 'wish list' regarding my recently discovered Grandfather who was an RAF chappie in WW2 so maybe, I'll gather as much info as I can and take that trip to Kew...one day anyway....!

Thanks again - much appreciated!
M

[MaxD]

It may not be why you are going to Kew but they don't have WW2 service records if that is what you are after??

Please excuse the query if I am off the mark.

MaxD

[Horsley2016]

Hi MaxD,

Not at all - glad you posted as I'll need to contact them I think! In the past couple of years I discovered my real maternal Grandfather. He was quite some character and possibly kicked out of the RAF after WW2! I found him in headlines of the local rag for example! 

Anyway, I sent off for his records out of curiosity and got an outline of his flying records (well, as much as they could give me out of GDPR/Data Protection rules!) But they informed me also that. if I wanted to look for the interesting stuff, I'd need to access records at Kew... I haven't picked up the thread much since then (work and family preventing me following this line further!) I had assumed the next stage would have been straightforward - to head to Kew, whenever I could! Clearly I need to dig out the paperwork I have and contact somebody!

Thanks MaxD
M

[MaxD]

Just the right approach.  You have his records so now it is a case of looking for the operations record books of his squadrons.  Thousands of them in the AIR 27 and other series at Kew- good luck.

MaxD