Author Topic: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?  (Read 5830 times)

Offline HopefulToff

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Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« on: Saturday 13 July 19 10:07 BST (UK) »
This is more of a brick wall than a beginner's query, but I need some fresh eyes and ears. My 4x-great-grandfather Jobe Henry West, Esquire (born April 1802 in Chatham, died July 1880 in Croydon) was certainly wealthy, leaving behind £2.4 million in today's money in his will, but what was £21,000 then seemed a bit much for a simple brewer, so it made me pause for thought. According to other researchers, Jobe's family always maintained that he had aristocratic lineage. The story goes that Jobe's father John West (died 1834 in Hoxton) was the son of a peer but he never claimed his title, inheritance and estates in Middlesex that he was entitled to. Instead he chose to take over the building business to which he was an apprentice, and later on was a ship's carpenter in Chatham dockyard. This aural folklore was handed down and the specific connection was written down by Jobe's sister Sarah. Unfortunately Sarah's proof was stolen. Through my own research I have discovered that John West did indeed die in Hoxton in 1834, but I can't get any further back. I have an idea as to what title John's dad might have had, as Jobe and Sarah's nephew James claimed a connection to the Sackville-West family, but I can't seem to solidify the claim of noble blood, nor have I found a way to contact Burke's Peerage to have them hear my story. Any advice on e-mailing Burke's correctly or seeing if my West family are indeed noble would be most appreciated.

Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 13 July 19 10:19 BST (UK) »
You could try looking on www.thepeerage.com which has lots of data, some of it clearly referenced; you could look in current or past copies of Burke in your library (or the Society of Genealogists' library which holds many editions and all sorts of othe treasures).
Any joy on these lines? Have you found a Will for John in 1834?
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 13 July 19 10:25 BST (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat

then seemed a bit much for a simple brewer,

I would not call him a simple brewer, in 1851 he was a Master Brewer employing 9 men and has a servant.    :)

Are the other two people mentioned on the fire insurance also Brewers  :-\
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c7cfa50d-6740-4e31-bcca-9c09d3d10997
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Offline trish1120

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 13 July 19 12:06 BST (UK) »
Trees have John West marrying Eleanor Birt 1787.
John dying 1834 and Eleanor 1848. (GRO Death Reg has her age 80)

Now a Eleanor West is on the 1841 Census and her age fits but she is a Straw Bonnet Maker.
Eleana West   70
Sarah Parks   50
William Parks   15
Sarah Parks   14




SARAH West
Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1823, St Luke, Finsbury, Islington to William Unni PARKS
JOHN/ESTHER West are witnesses

SARAH West was Baptised:   10 Dec 1789, Lying IN Hospital Endell Street,Holborn,London
Parents JOHN/ELEANOR
1861 Sarah is under PURKS born c 1790

What I am trying to say is that if that is the correct Eleanor (Birt) who married John West 1787 they were not well off.

Therefore your Jobe John West may have been a self made man.,

You may have to follow up Jobe Wests siblings to see what their circumstances were.

Trish :)
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline PrawnCocktail

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 13 July 19 12:08 BST (UK) »
In the Chatham PRs, we have several children for John and Eleanor West:

James William 22 Nov 1795
Eleanor 18 Feb 1798
William James 24 Aug 1800
Job Henry 4 Apr 1802
Esther 18 Dec 1803
Eliza 2 Sep 1804
Website: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~towcesterfamilies/genealogy/
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Offline trish1120

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 13 July 19 12:17 BST (UK) »
BAPTISMS;
St Mary the Virgin, Chatham, Kent to JOHN/ELEANOR West
MARY ANN 26 Dec 1793
JAMES WILLIAMS 22 Nov 1795
ELEANOR 18 Feb 1798
WILLIAM JAMES 24 Aug 1800
JOB HENRY 04 Apr 1802
ESTHER 18 Dec 1803 (birth 13 Nov 1803)
ELIZA 02 Sep 1804
(FreeREG)

Sorry I forgot to welcome you to Rootschat :)
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 13 July 19 12:18 BST (UK) »
Great minds think alike Prawncocktail :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 13 July 19 13:28 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat  :)

My thoughts on John West -

"The story goes that Jobe's father John West (died 1834 in Hoxton) was the son of a peer but he never claimed his title, inheritance and estates in Middlesex that he was entitled to. Instead he chose to take over the building business to which he was an apprentice, and later on was a ship's carpenter in Chatham dockyard."

I find it difficult to understand the situation of a peer's son a) being an apprentice, and b) a ship's carpenter.

Assuming it is the correct burial for John West in 1834 = St Andrew, Holborn - 26 September 1834 - John West aged 58 of Portpool Lane.
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Was my four-times-great-grandfather of noble blood?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 13 July 19 13:46 BST (UK) »
In 1851 Job's brother James William West bn 1795 is a Maltster living in Poplar
HO107/1556 f245 p7

ADDED
Also in 1851 possible sister Esther  married to John Thompson a Solicitors Clerk.
HO107/1538 f46 p7
Later children of the marriage have mmn as West and there is also a niece Eleanor West age 6 bn Shoreditch staying with them
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk