Author Topic: Betsal, Bestall, Bestil, Bestel, Bestle in Avoca, Co Wicklow (Read 3436 times)

aghadowey · « **Reply #18 on:** Sunday 14 April 19 20:10 BST (UK) »

Back in 2007 it was suggested that you start a separate thread for your family, Bernie12, but unfortunately it wasn't done at that point and has not become intertwined with the Bestall family that the original poster, and others were looking for.

There is lots of information online (some available in the last few years) to sort out much of what has been posted here.
Bestall information also on this Macfarlane thread-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=272018.0

Dr. George Bestall m.(1796) Ann Law
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-277-1-3-431
Their son-
William Law Bestall (c1800-30 May 1867 Templelyon House) m.(1822) Catherine Manning (c1804-1889)
? William Law Bestall About 1796 Vale Of Avoca
? William Law Bestall Marriage: 24 APR 1822 Dunganstown, Wicklow, Ireland
Wicklow News-Letter and County Advertiser, 1 June 1867: May 30, at Templelyon house, Redcross, after a long and painful illness, William Law Bestall, Esq., aged 67 years.
1. William Law Bestall (c1821-19 Mar.1904 Templelyon), farmer, m.(1873 Rathmines, Dublin) Elizabeth Maria Ffrench
2. George Augustus Bestall (c1822-1902 Chicago), eldest son, m.(1847 Urney) Margaret Caldwell (c1827-19 Sept.1861 Forttown House, Caslederg)
3. Samuel Manning Bestall (c1823-1885 Gorey), solicitor, m. Margaret Fitzsimmons
4. Richard Frederick Bestall (c1828-21 Sept.1856)
5. Sarah Anne “Nannie” Bestall (c1833-1866 Dublin) m.(1859 Dublin) Charles Caldon/Caldow
6. Abraham Bestal (1835-1892) m.(1875) Jane Hall Bolton
7. Susanna Frances Bestall (1836-1908) m.(1857 Redcross) Dr. Stopford William Halpin
8. Kate Adelaide Bestall (1837-1917) m.(1861 Dublin) Dr. John Gay Ffrench
9. Dr. Robert McCausland Bestall (1840-1884) m. Mary Eleanor Nina Askins
10. Elizabeth Charlotte Bestall (1842-1931) m.(1880) Allen William French (d.1933)
11. Dr. Charles Albert Bestall (1845-1881)
12. Georgina Matilda/Maude Bestall (1847-1922) m.(1877 & 1878) Dr. Richard Henry Ffrench (c1849-1888)

aghadowey · « **Reply #19 on:** Sunday 14 April 19 20:15 BST (UK) »

Quote from: minimac on Tuesday 18 December 07 15:18 GMT (UK)

Yes the Liverpool family is our family. They are the siblings of my grandmother Charlotte Elizabeth. I did not however know of Audley Caldwell Bestall or Rebecca Margaret and some of the d.o.b's seem a little different. I did not know they were all in Liverpool although my grandmother I know married my grandfather Joseph Macfarlane and they lived there and it is where we all hail from. Rebecca Margaret must have been the child of the second marriage of Audley William B to Mary Campbell in 1883 I think.

The 'Liverpool' family-
George James Bestall (c1853 Creduff, Tyrone-8 July 1902 Chicago), son of George Augustus Bestall & Margaret Caldwell (see above), m.(1874 W. Derby) Annie Gray (c1845-J/M 1883 Liverpool) m.(1890 Philadelphia) Jane Caldwell, ?m.(3 Mar.1902 Chicago) Alma Bloomberg
Marriage Bonds & Allegations (1874) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F19G-L2T
All children mother’s maiden name Gray.
1. Charlotte Caldwell Elizabeth Bestall (2 Mar.1875 Liverpool-J/M 1875 Liverpool)
Birth notice: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLSW-HZTB
2. Sarah Georgina Bestall (A/J 1876 Liverpool-A/J 1876 Liverpool)
3. Audley Caldwell Bestall (J/S 1877 Liverpool-Sept.1877 Liverpool)
Burial https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J86K-QP1
4. Rebecca Margaret Bestall (11 Dec.1878 Liverpool-aft.1940) m. _ Campbell
1900 Census- Chicago: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS7M-RB1 (to US 1890)
Bapt.1901 Chicago https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SZQ-Q6V?i=89&cc=1452409 (Margaret Rebecca)
5. Frederick Bestall (J/M 1883 Liverpool-J/M 1883 Liverpool)

tmusabotf · « **Reply #20 on:** Sunday 14 April 19 20:44 BST (UK) »

Shazza092324. Is you’re Mary Bestall the one who married Thomas Winters, if so we are related and I personally know two of Mary’s children. I was speaking to one of them just 2 weeks ago. I have now found at least another 9 various spellings but the original is definitely either Bestal or Bestall.

Bestal is on my grandfather’s baptism cert but Bestall on his birth certificate (born in Wicklow 1893). If you’re Mary is the one who married Thomas Winters it means you’re Mary was my grandfather’s niece and my mother’s cousin. If so pleased to meet you over the web. I’ve recently had a new gravestone erected for William as the old one was worn out. I’ve also got an item which is engraved with the name Bestall. It’s absolutely worthless but adds to the history.

The majority of the way the name is spelled in Ireland is Bestal and Bestall, due to the style of writing a lot of transcriptions/interpretation of the spelling it’s clear to see that a good deal of the records have been interpreted incorrectly hence so many different spellings appearing in the records, not helped by the fact that (Wm Bestal and Margaret Corcoran) couldn't write and as well as incorrect transcriptions they also depended on the priest, minister and registrar etc spelling the name correctly. Even Willian’s town of birth has been transcribed incorrectly as Rathdown, it should be Rathdrum (I can see how that’s happened (style of writing again). Ive asked for it to be changed but as yet it hasn’t happened.

I presume you know about their other son Francis who won the military medal for bravery on the field during ww1.

Maybe one day we will get to the bottom of the lineage.

tmusabotf · « **Reply #21 on:** Monday 15 April 19 02:08 BST (UK) »

Aghadowey, there is a separate page which I started. Unfortunately it didn’t get any further back, hallmark and dathai did manage to find some answers for me with regards to going forward 1890’- 1960 and it was great.

Unfortunately I’m still stuck with what and other members of my family are looking for re going back in time, we have searched many records and are getting absolutely no where. A lot of marriage records pre 1860 can’t be viewed yet, nor deaths- only the name but no details. My recent response was a reply to someone who innocently posted on this page the other day who is new to this site just like me way back.

I can modify my recent posts to show no text apart from a dot or I can ask the moderator to remove them completely if you want but that will leave hallmark, yourself, dathai with replies to posts which I will have removed resulting in it looking odd. I have no problem modifying or removing them but need to know quickly as I believe after a certain point modifying cant be done, therefore if I modify the recent ones it would be best if the three of you did the same.

It’s clear there’s no direct line link to Audley or William Law but they could be cousins (particularly with William Law also from Wicklow) and it appears Audley had relatives in Dublin. Someone at one point said they could see a connection but I’ve ruled it out myself as their mothers are different. In 2007 I hadn’t a clue how to start a new post but afterwards figured it out and was hoping someone who was posting here had some info at the time.

Unfortunately that brick wall still exists after 15 years of looking.

I’ve found some details of what could be a connection to my line in the 1600’s In Wicklow but because there are gaps I’m unable to link for definite. Therefore I’m now checking England and Wales in case the family were moving about but thats a very big task as so many Bestalls in many different towns in England. Difficult to pick which one (needle in a haystack).

With such an unusual name and 99% appear to be mainly in Wicklow and Tyrone there’s got to be a connection (common ancestor) somewhere

Apologies for posting on this page in 2007 but I thought it would be rude not to respond to someone just starting out.

aghadowey · « **Reply #22 on:** Monday 15 April 19 09:24 BST (UK) »

Aghadowey, there is a separate page which I started. Unfortunately it didn’t get any further back, hallmark and dathai did manage to find some answers for me with regards to going forward 1890’- 1960 and it was great.
Here's your other topic- it's too bad you didn't direct Shazza092324 to that topic to keep you family's posts together but too late now.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=798592.0

A lot of marriage records pre 1860 can’t be viewed yet, nor deaths- only the name but no details.
Do you mean Irish Genealogy civil records? registration of Catholic marriages didn't start until 1864. Hopefully more records will be added soon (there's at least one topic about that here on RC)

I can modify my recent posts to show no text apart from a dot or I can ask the moderator to remove them completely if you want but that will leave hallmark, yourself, dathai with replies to posts which I will have removed resulting in it looking odd. I have no problem modifying or removing them but need to know quickly as I believe after a certain point modifying cant be done, therefore if I modify the recent ones it would be best if the three of you did the same.
You can only modify your own posts within 24 hours. Moderators can split replies, etc. but this thread is now too jumbled to start doing that. Deleting information already posted or entire posts is not Rootschat policy unless the posts contain spam, abusive language, etc.

I can't see any links yet between your family and these Bestalls (well educated, property owners, etc.). Anything is possible and there may be a link much further back but difficult to find records to prove or disprove at this point.

aghadowey · « **Reply #23 on:** Monday 15 April 19 09:31 BST (UK) »

aghadowey · « **Reply #24 on:** Monday 15 April 19 09:35 BST (UK) »

George Augustus Bestall (c1822-1902 Chicago), eldest son, m.(1847 Urney) Margaret Caldwell (c1827-19 Sept.1861 Forttown House, Caslederg), dau. of Audley Caldwell
Marriage https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGVD-VKMM
Londonderry Sentinel, 27 Feb.1847: On the 25th inst., at Urney Church, by the Rev. Mr. Rodgers, George, eldest son of William Law Bestall, Esq., Templelyon, county Wicklow, to Margaret, eldest daughter of Audley Caldwell, Esq., Castletown House, Strabane.
Londonderry Sentinel, 27 Sept.1861: September 19, at the Forttown House, Castlederg, Margaret, wife of Mr. George Bestall, aged 34 years.
To the memory of Audley CALDWELL late of the Forttown who entered into life eternal on the 14th of October 1859 aged 60 years also of Frederick LAW youngest son of Margaret BESTALL who departed this life on 21st June 1860 aged 5 years also of his mother Margaret BESTALL eldest daughter of Audley CALDWELL who exchanged mortality for life on the 19th of September 1861 aged 34 years also James Audley second son of the late Audley CALDWELL, Esqr of Forttown who died 28th September 1877 aged 47.
1. Charlotte Elizabeth Bestall (1847-27 June 1932) m.(1881 Victoria Terrace, Ballymacarrett, Belfast) Hugh Alexander Campbell (d.10 Apr.1921), draper, Ballynahinch. Raised in America?
Londonderry Sentinel, 27 Nov.1847: November 13th, at Castletown House, county Tyrone, the lady of George Bestall, Esq., of a daughter.
Marriage https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/11006/8024505.pdf
2. Audley William John Bestall (1848/1850 Castlederg?-30 June 1920 Hillsborough) m.1 Mary Jane Caldwell; m.2 Mary Patterson Campbell
3. George James Bestall (c1853 Creduff, Tyrone-8 July 1902 Chicago) m.(1874 W. Derby) Annie Gray (c1845-J/M 1883 Liverpool) m.(1890 Philadelphia) Jane Caldwell, ?m.(3 Mar.1902 Chicago) Alma Bloomberg. Family already posted.
4. Frederick Law Bestall (c1855-21 June 1860)
Londonderry Sentinel, 29 June 1860: June 21, at Forthtown House, Castlederg, Frederick Law, the beloved child of George Bestall, Esq., aged 5 years and 4 months.

aghadowey · « **Reply #25 on:** Monday 15 April 19 09:40 BST (UK) »

tmusabotf · « **Reply #26 on:** Monday 15 April 19 11:37 BST (UK) »

Hello Aghadowey, I’m still able to modify most recent posts to a dot, let me know if you want that done. I've contacted the moderator asking them to remove my posts so that Audley’s board is clearer, as mentioned my recent posts on this board was because I didn’t want to appear rude but it is muddying the waters for Audley.

More than likely they are related via a common ancestor (particularly since both strains come from Rathdrum). There are official and shameful reasons why RC and others weren’t formally educated for a lengthy period of time (centuries), prior to that a lot of RC were educated in Irish Gaelic till that was banned.

I’ve also been told and have read that if a COI person married an RC person during the period of education being stopped for RC that the COI person was officially disowned (perhaps not lovingly disowned but definitely officially) and not only that their children were banned from being educated. I have no affiliation to either religion

In fact I have 2 ministers in my family born in the late 1700’s (one was a pilgrim minister who emigrated to America re missions), there is a painting of him in the 1800’s in a well known university. The other minister wasn’t a pilgrim but was the head minister of his parish. These ministers are linked to the Bestall family via other sources of marriage and are blood relations.

I’ve found many more mixed marriages for both sides of my family in Ireland and it is possible that is what happened re the Bestall’s of Wicklow in my family. However I still have to prove it which isn’t easy at the moment but will still continue to look.

Re RC marriages pre 1864 I’ve managed to find one yesterday in Wicklow dated 1855, looks like some are there but not all, they can be found in find my past. No doubt some will be in an unreadable state and others lost in the fire. I believe lots of Wicklow records were lost in the fire sadly.

I also have RC marriage records from other counties in Ireland pre 1864 with regards to my other side of the family. Hopefully more will be available soon and the link can be gotten

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Author Topic: Betsal, Bestall, Bestil, Bestel, Bestle in Avoca, Co Wicklow (Read 3436 times)

aghadowey

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aghadowey

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tmusabotf

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tmusabotf

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aghadowey

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aghadowey

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aghadowey

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aghadowey

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tmusabotf

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