Author Topic: Translation queries  (Read 6334 times)

Offline Deirdre784

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Translation queries
« on: Thursday 01 August 19 09:49 BST (UK) »
Hope this is ok to ask. I have a few gravestones that i need a bit of help with. My very basic Welsh and Google translate has done most of them, but there are a few ‘puzzles’.

Yr Arglwydd yw fy mugail, ni fydd eisiau arnaf - The Lord is my shepherd, I will not want to (is this just the ‘I’ll not want’ from the hymn?

Gwaith a gorffwys, bellach wedi mynd yn un - Work and rest, now become one.

Gorau’i ddawn gysergrodd O - O has the best of his gift.

A’i wasanaethu Ef a^ chalon berffaith ac ysbryd ewlysgar - And serve him with a perfect heart and an eloquent spirit.

Many thanks,

Deirdre
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 01 August 19 09:53 BST (UK) »
There was another strange one but i realised what it should have said. The gravestone appears to say ‘or unlle’ which google made ‘of nowhere’. Amazing to split unlle into ‘un lle’ and get ‘of the same place’ (the residence was listed further up).
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline chwiliwr

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 01 August 19 11:33 BST (UK) »
Between you and google you have done a fairly good job.

Yr Arglwydd yw fy mugail ... is the beginning of Psalm 23. The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want is a more accurate translation.

Your second quote I would say is faultless.

Gorau'i ddawn ...The best of his talents he consecrated (made sacred)

ysbryd ewyllysgar = a willing spirit

You are quite right o'r unlle translates to of the same place. The proverb 'Birds of a feather flock together' translates to 'Adar o'r unlliw hedfan i'r unlle' literally Birds of the same colour fly to the same place.


Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 01 August 19 11:53 BST (UK) »
Many thanks chwiliwr, that’s great; making out some of the words on the gravestones wasn’t easy - esp some of the Cs and Gs. Can send on now to my friends (not my own tree) in USA, Canada and Patagonia.

Actually just realised that i’ve missed out the one with most queries (possibly quotes). Will transcribe and add asap.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....


Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 01 August 19 12:45 BST (UK) »
This is the whole transcription of the last one.... queries in red:

Er serchog cof am annwyl plant David a Sarah Roberts,
Annie, fu farw Hydref 26 1918, yn 3 blwydd oed.
Tom, gollodd ei fywyd drwy foddy, Gorff 4 1933, yn 19 mlwydd oed.
Er yr archoll o'i golli-a'i cuddio dan caddug o'i asbri, o'r bedd daw Tom er boddy yn iach a llon uwch y lli.
Hefyd ei frawd David M Roberts, bu farw drwy damwain Chwef 15 1949, yn 28 mlwydd oed.
Hefyd ei dad David J Roberts, bu farw Mawrth 6 1949, yn 62 mlwydd oed.
'Yr hyn a allodd y rhai hyn, ......... a'i gwnaethant’. 
Hefyd eu mam Sarah J Roberts, fu farw Mai 14 1981, yn 90 mlwydd oed.
Gwyn eu byd.

This is what I have managed...

To cherish the memory of the beloved children of David and Sarah Roberts,
Annie, who died October 26 1918, aged 3 years.
Tom, who lost his life by drowning, July 4 1933, at 19 years old.
Despite the wound of his loss — and hiding it under his auspices, from Tom's grave Tom becomes happily healthy and cheerful.
Also his brother David M Roberts, who died in an accident on February 15 1949, aged 28.
Also his father David J Roberts, died March 6 1949, aged 62 years.
'What these people were able to do, ......... and did it’.
Also their mother Sarah J Roberts, who died May 14 1981, aged 90 years.
Blessed.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 01 August 19 12:54 BST (UK) »
the bit I couldn't actually make out is attached..... words above 'hefyd eu mam'  Many thanks  :)
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline pinot

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 August 19 00:19 BST (UK) »
Chwiliwr will no doubt add what I have missed, but your "from Tom's grave Tom" etc is better rendered as "from the grave Tom comes / will come, despite drowning, healthy and happy above the sea". "Gwyn eu byd" is part of the New Testament beatitudes (blessed are the peacemakers etc), best translated as "Blessed are they / may they be". "Boddy" is  a mis-spelling of 'boddi' (drown).

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 August 19 02:41 BST (UK) »
Thanks pinot, that makes more sense.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline chwiliwr

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Re: Translation queries
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 03 August 19 10:17 BST (UK) »
Good morning

I think some of your c's should be g's but I know from experience how difficult old headstones can be. Must be our weather! cuddio and caddug should be mutated to  guddio and gaddug after a vowel
If I can add to pinot's suggestions, the first part of Er yr archoll... I think translates as 'Despite the wound of his loss and hiding his vivacity (asbri) under a {cloak of} darkness ...'

'Yr hyn a allodd rhain ...' is an amendment of a quote from Jesus 'Yr hyn a allodd hon, hi a'i gwnaeth' which I believe comes from the story of the widow's mite in the New Testament. However my memory may be wrong as my Sunday School days are a long time ago in the past. 'What these people could do, they did'

The quote is a fairly common one on headstones and in obituaries for people of limited means or, dare I say it, limited abilities. I have always thought it rather demeaning and damning with faint praise. It is also used for men 'Yr hyn a allodd hwn, ef a'i gwnaeth' so not only a sexist thing.