Author Topic: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear  (Read 1728 times)

Offline LaytonLily

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JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« on: Sunday 25 August 19 08:59 BST (UK) »
I would like to know how I might find out information concerning ancestors who went from England to Jamaica around the 1830's.  They each appear to have had a business there.  William was born about 1815 and Thomas about 1817. 

 I understand William left a Will when he died in Jamaica about 1859   -  how could I get a copy of that Will ?     Thomas appears to have moved from Jamaica to Brooklyn, New York and thought to have died in 1888 -   how could I check if he left a Will and if so, how might I get a copy ?

Thank you for any help.
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline heywood

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 25 August 19 12:34 BST (UK) »
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Offline heywood

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Offline trish1120

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #3 on: Monday 26 August 19 14:38 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure what you have on JOHN/EMMA Breakspear the boys Parents?
They seem to have married 1801 in Oxfordshire, Emma nee Salmon

John was a Excise Officer on the Bapt of Thomas 1817 (FreeREG)

I think Emma is still alive in 1851 born c 1778 Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire

John/Emma were witnesses to the Marriage of Daug Eliza Ann 1830 Harborne, Staffs

The signatures seem to match 1801 Marriage.

Trish :)
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Offline LaytonLily

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #4 on: Monday 26 August 19 15:13 BST (UK) »
Many thanks Trish 1120.  Yes I do have that information but thank you.   It is the parents of Thomas Breakspear Salmon has been the sticking point.  But also, because we had no real information on them, we were not 100% convinced John and Emma were the grand parents.    If seemed to tie up with him taking on the name Breakpsear Salmon for some reason but I needed something to tie them up with TBS born 1839.  This website was a help in the past in that respect.   

But it is now trying to find out if the Thomas Breakspear found in Jamaican records is TBS's father.   He is also there with his brother William and there are letters found from both of them to their sister in Birmingham Jane Davies, who was Breakspear, so a daughter of John and Emma.   Thomas Salmon, Jeweller (which he was) is living with her in 1861 - this information was again provided by folks on Roots.chat. 

There are two families in Jamaica for Thomas Breakspear - one was provided from folks here in reply to my original question which confused me again !    I had him married to Frances Louise Cooper born 1831 - one of their children was Emma Theresa Ellen born 1857  -  but then someone here said there were baptism entries for father being Thomas Breakspear, mother was Sarah Cadwell and one of their children Charles John born 1848.  Now I wonder was Sarah the first wife of Thomas and he married Frances after ?  Or were there two Thomas Breakspear's in Jamaica at the same time !

We are very fortunate when I think about it, having the ability in this country to search for birth marriage and death registrations, and send for certificates, which can give us so much helpful information.  For family in other countries this is just not available it seems.    I would like a marriage cert. for Thomas and Sarah and Thomas and Frances to give me their father's name and occupation etc. !

No marriage cert or census entries found for Thomas Breakspear Salmon and Eliza, shown as the parents of TBS born 1839.    Just wonder why he called himself Thomas Breakspear Salmon in 1839 if he is really Thomas Breakspear in Jamaica.   Maybe TBS shown as father was really a relative of Emma Salmon.  Ah well - it keeps the brain cells ever active !


ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline heywood

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 27 August 19 12:44 BST (UK) »
With regard to the Jamaican records, there is the marriage announcement to Sarah Cadwell and then the children’s baptisms.
There are later baptisms for Thomas and Frances.
If I recall, the children (or some) from both sets of records are with Thomas and Frances in USA and also mentioned in the administration record you have.
This strongly indicates that it is the same person.
You have him in Jamaica in early 1840s through Freemason’s membership together with William.
It is a pity that you can’t find your Thomas in 1841 and immigration records for Thomas snr  :-\
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Offline LaytonLily

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 27 August 19 13:23 BST (UK) »
I know heywood .  I can never fully accept someone found unless there is at least one way to double check they are who I think they are.   So for Thomas Breakspear and Sarah Cadwell I really want something like a marriage certificate saying his father was John Breakspear.  Same with Frances Louise the same.     I think I have found one of the sons of Thomas and Sarah living with Thomas and Frances in New York on 1870 census, so needs a bit more checking but that ties the two families up together !

I have been searching on this family for a few years, finding bits that I was unsure of, but keeping them tucked away just in case, as you do.   Then some time later, finding some verification for those 'bits' as relating to the Breakspear / Salmon family.   And so it goes on of course.

Yes I would like to know when Thomas went over to Jamaica, one would think after the birth of his son in 1839, so if he went before then, 'this' Thomas is not the father of TBS born 1839 !

As I thought of before, what if TBS was the son of a relative of Emma Salmon (who was married to John Breakspear)    I would still believe this Jamaica family is still related to him via his grand  parents, but this Thomas is not his father - Thomas is quite a common name after all.  Because I always thought it odd in Jamaica he is Breakspear but the baptism for TBS in 1839 show his father as Thomas Breakspear Salmon  -  Breakspear being used there as a second name.

Ah well again - it gives me breaks coming here to work on from working in the heat in the garden !
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA

Offline trish1120

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 27 August 19 14:41 BST (UK) »
So this is his Birth Reg?

SALMON, THOMAS       -  No Mothers maiden name
GRO Reference: 1839  J Quarter in THE WALSALL UNION  Volume 17  Page 230

So Thomas was the illeg Son of ELIZA Salmon with Thomas BREAKSPEAR

That is how the Baptism reads to me also.

1861 TS is a Cousin of Edward/Sarah Stoke nee Davis.
1851 the Nephew of Emma Breakspear.

Also in 1851 Census Sarah Ann Davis c 1839, later Stokes, is living with her Family next door to Emma Breakspear.
Parents JOHN/JANE Davis

Jane BREAKSPEAR, Single married John DAVIS
29 Sep 1828, St. Philip, Birmingham, Warwick, England

1851 Jane Davis is born c 1805 Kings Langley, Kent
1871 c 1805 Stokelargley Herefordshire

1861 we have;
Edward Stokes   24
Sarah A Stokes   22
Ellen Stokes   1 mth
Jane Davies   58 Boarder Widow born Oxfordshire
Thomas Salmon   22


JANE Breakspear
Christened 20 January 1805, Kings Langley, Hertford, England
Birth 23 December 1804
Parents JOHN/EMMA

Trish :)






All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline LaytonLily

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Re: JAMACIA For William and Thomas Breakspear
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 27 August 19 15:53 BST (UK) »
Well I never Trish1120!    I thought I had looked for a birth cert for him but failed to find one and only had the baptism record.    I had not thought it might have been as you say, until thinking it all through over recent days.   I have now sent for the birth cert as pdf.  Not that it might tell me any more than the baptism record of course.

So maybe Eliza ,mother of TBS, was a relative of his grandmother, a Salmon, so perhaps a niece of Emma and maybe yes, the father was Thomas Breakspear, so a cousin.  Now I need to find any siblings of Emma Salmon and who had a daughter named Eliza !

I do have the other information you supplied but thank you indeed.  (mostly helped by folks on this website previously !)
ASTON, Birmingham : TWIST, B.ham: HUNT, B.ham: LAYTON, Worcestershire: LAYTON, B.ham: BISHOP, Leic.: TYSALL, B.ham: BURLEY,B.ham: SCOTT,B.ham: FISHER, B.ham : PRICHARD,Wales: BEARD,Worc. : SCHREDER, USA