Author Topic: Robert Gann :  (Read 2797 times)

Offline Iain...

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 24 September 19 04:15 BST (UK) »
Very interesting…   Thanks again UKgirl.

Concerning my manuscript, part of the introduction is dedicated to getting the start-time of the battle correct and it’s just that (the Dispatch) that tells all. 
Ever since 1970, the feature film has Wellington and his Staff verifying their pocket watches at 11h35…, whereas, in his Dispatch, (‘Despatch’) he talks about a ferocious 10h00 battle at Hougoumont.  The film is correct concerning the first French volley (which was not targeting the farm) but ridiculous to suggest that hundreds of French, Nassau and Jaegers soldiers plus General Bauduin died after 11h35.
With all due respect to many Authors…, the term ‘a battle within a battle’ is a bit silly and often used to get them out of a jam. 
https://www.theguardian.com/books/audio/2015/may/19/battle-of-waterloo-duke-of-wellington-dispatch-hugh-grant

Thanks again…  ;)
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 28 September 19 18:19 BST (UK) »
Note of clarification for this thread:

1851
Civil Parish: St. George Hanover Square
Sub-registration District: Belgrave
Enumeration District: 01a

Robert Gann (73) is actually a Chelsea "Out" Pensioner, and his address has no connection with Chelsea, Chelsea Barracks or Chelsea Hospital.

Ancestry page numbers:
Page 17, Robert is listed simply as "Chelsea Pensioner", but, same location:
Page 20, Thos. Mahon/Maton aged 67, is accurately listed as "Chelsea Out Pensioner".
Page 1, Description of Enumeration District: the address is clearly written as Old Barrack Yard (not Old Barracks Garden as Lily kindly suggested: Yd/Gd). Helpfully (and surprisingly!), the Enumerator has sketched a little map of the neighbourhood.

The location is Knightsbridge and Old Barrack Yard still exists. Here is an interesting write-up with old photos, new photos, old map details and historical info, including discussion about the Grenadier Pub.

https://alondoninheritance.com/category/londonpubs/

Other Googling suggests that Wellington used to keep his horses there (?).

*****
I wonder if you have the details for Robert in 1841?

If not, then you may be surprised to learn that he is actually living with His Grace the Duke of Wellington (aged 72) and the Duke’s nephew Gerald Wellesley (aged 30, Clergyman).

The Civil Parish is the same as in 1851.

1841
Civil Parish: St. George Hanover Square
Sub-registration District: Mayfair
Enumeration District: 9

Ancestry page number:
Page 7, Robert Gann, aged 64, M.S. (Male Servant).
There are many Female Servants and about 14 Male Servants, but Robert is the oldest (most senior?), being only 8 years younger than the Duke himself!

The address is just listed as Piccadilly, but it is in fact this impressive building:
 https://historicengland.org.uk/services-skills/education/educational-images/apsley-house-149-piccadilly-hyde-park-corner-westminster-9657

Robert’s wife, Sarah, is not with him.

You may enjoy correcting the garbled mistranscription for this household on Ancestry? - starting with the Duke, and including Robert.

UKgirl

P.S. I notice that Rosie previously found this 1841 entry, but perhaps didn't realise who the Head of the Household was!
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 29 September 19 05:47 BST (UK) »
Oh my goodness !  You are surely unaware of the importance of this find. (for me at least) I will need all day to get back to you ! (lots of thought needed)

It’s also coming to the forefront that I’m a bit of a twit when it comes to Ancestry.  I’ve been a member for about 10 years and never found any info like you all have here !
See you in the afternoon…   :)

Kind Regards…, Iain.
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Offline Iain...

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 29 September 19 13:40 BST (UK) »
Hi UKgirl…  Hi All…

Something amusing is your London Pubs URL, with the Grenadier pub publicity looking for an employee and telling the Irish not to apply. 
The Grenadiers were also at Hougoumont so there must have been a lot of lamp swinging in that pub.  In addition, to get to the Grenadier pub, if Robert walked through the arch of the Old Barrack Yard, every visit must have reminded him of the Hougoumont south gate he defended. (see the similarities in the image)

I have a friend who is writing a book about Wellington and I’m sure she will be interested in reading your post.  Because of it, I’ll write to her and ask if she has any information. 
Robert would have seen the Duke twice that morning (he’d almost certainly not have spoken with him) but who knows, because of Hougoumont and the forcing of the North Gate, perhaps the Duke could have provided him with a favourable employment.

UKgirl…, thank you again for the find. 
I’ll keep you all updated..., Iain. 
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 29 September 19 20:36 BST (UK) »
Hello again,

The side-by-side photos are indeed remarkable!

And yes, the 1828 advert "no Irish need apply" seems all the more ludicrous when you consider that their hero Wellington was actually born in Ireland, to a family that had lived there for centuries.

As for his troops, I read that they comprised 40% Irish during the Peninsula Wars and 30% Irish at Waterloo. In 1828, he actually stated in the House of Lords that it was to Irish Catholic soldiers that "we all owe our proud pre-eminence in our military careers".

So it would seem that the Irish were considered trustworthy enough to fight for King and Country, but not trustworthy enough to measure a pint correctly!!!!

Anyway, may I draw your attention to Reply16?

Jonw65 kindly gave you a baptism date of 28 Apr 1776 and gave you a link to the actual baptism image (free of charge at Family Search).

You then replied (Reply23) that Robert was baptised 2 years after he was born. However, if you look at the baptism dates of his siblings, that scenario does not add up.

John Gann & Ann Brown
Marriage Banns 14 & 21 & 28 Jan 1770 in Bobbbingworth (St. Germain)
stating: John Gann of this parish & Ann Brown of the parish of Stonedon.

see Banns image:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTFP-CB?i=398&cc=1465709&cat=59805

Followed by actual Marriage 11 Feb 1770 in Stondon Massey (St. Peter & St. Paul) (5 miles from Bobbingworth) (Ancestry transcription).

So, the couple got married in the Bride's parish, but then made their home in Bobbingworth.

Baptisms (Bobbingworth):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTFT-HL?i=327&cc=1465709&cat=59805

Luckily, this image page found by Jonw65 covers several years, so it conveniently shows 3 of the baptisms (1772, 1774, 1776).

For 3 other baptisms, click backwards for 1770, & forwards for 1778 & 1780.

1770 Jul 22 Sarah > died 1777 Jan 7
1772 Apr 5 John
1774 Jun 26 William
1776 Apr 28 Robert
1778 Oct 4 James
1780 Aug 20 Daniel
1785 May 1 John (Jno.) (presumably the first John had died?)

Conclusion: it would seem that Robert was not baptised 2 years after he was born.

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #32 on: Monday 30 September 19 06:59 BST (UK) »
UKgirl…, once again, thank you.   Lol…, your tree must be impeccable and with comments like that, it has me wondering about the validity of my own.  I didn’t even realize that RootsChat posts were numbered !
It’s too early in the day to get my head around that for the time being but you are surely correct.  Having two Roberts probably led to the confusion.

Without browsing the posts, I don’t think I mentioned that I intend to self publish and the book/s will be sold principally to the Brigade of Guards.  However, today’s ‘Septem Juncta In Uno’ regiments (7…, five infantry and two cavalry) and with only five at Waterloo, (Irish and Welsh not yet formed) I need to convince these two regiments to buy.
Despite my 71 years, I’m still a serial entrepreneur !   :)

My commercial argument for them will be based on the fact that there were thousands of Irish and Welsh at Waterloo. (as you say, Wellington included) 
Funnily enough, the Grenadier Guards actually provided a company of about 150 men to create the Welsh Guards in 1915.   However, I wonder if they’d have done the same for the Irish Guards in 1900 ?
This will make an interesting discussion on their social media next year. 

Will get back to you soon…, Iain.
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Offline UKgirl

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 08 October 19 23:41 BST (UK) »
Re. Old Barrack Yard:

A few days ago we were all wondering about this address. Well, funnily enough, an interview published just today on a London blog (SpitalfieldsLife.com) introduces a woman in her nineties who actually lived there for 42 years! She seems to have had quite a life.

https://spitalfieldslife.com/2019/10/08/lilo-blum-hyde-park-equestrian/

Of course she talks about Knightsbridge Barracks and the Grenadier Pub.

It’s a bit off topic, but perhaps it’s interesting to read about the locale and get a picture of what was going on there.

UKgirl
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Iain...

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Re: Robert Gann :
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 10 October 19 09:16 BST (UK) »
Thanks again UKgirl...
Very interesting as usual.  After reading all that (especially with the Household Cavalry) Wellington must surely have kept his horses there.
During my next visit to the UK for research..., I just might have a quick pint at the Grenadiers.  ;)

..., Iain
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Offline william gann

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Re: Robert Gann : Bobbingworth, Essex and parents John and Ann
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 16 March 22 16:00 GMT (UK) »
Hello Iain.

I am writing in reference to your interest in a John Gann and wife, Ann Brown. 

I am William Gann of Independence, Missouri, and a long-time genealogical researcher of the Gann Historical Society.  For a number of years, we have had a DNA testing program and in which a number of living Gann men in the UK have been tested and their Y-Chrom DNA results match many Gann men here in the U.S.

John Gann, bpt. 9 Aug 1741 in Bobbingworth married Ann Brown.  Banns were given on 14, 21, & 28 Jan 1770, and they were married on 11 Feb 1770 in Bobbingworth.   Ann was born c. 1750 and died 7 Oct 1790 in Bobbingworth.  We are seeking more information on the children of this couple of which several are known. 

If you are interested in John’s ancestral lineage, I have his line going back for five generations.   I also have his line continuing down to today.

William Gann