Author Topic: Don't know where to go from here?  (Read 1565 times)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #9 on: Friday 06 September 19 02:05 BST (UK) »
Hi EB,

You just caught me before I called it a very late night (2am) and headed to bed.

The family are listed as Branch on the 1841 Census on SP. Can only assume the writing is poor. But not like SP to be wrong. You can, if you want to, advise them of the error and they'll double-check it then change the index.

Bearing insufficient stamps  :-\ ?  That sounds as if Isabella hadn't put enough stamps to cover postage on a letter - but it can't be that surely??

Looby :)

Offline EBrand

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #10 on: Friday 06 September 19 02:10 BST (UK) »
Hi EB,

You just caught me before I called it a very late night (2am) and headed to bed.

The family are listed as Branch on the 1841 Census on SP. Can only assume the writing is poor. But not like SP to be wrong. You can, if you want to, advise them of the error and they'll double-check it then change the index.

Bearing insufficient stamps  :-\ ?  That sounds as if Isabella hadn't put enough stamps to cover postage on a letter - but it can't be that surely??

Looby :)


Hi Looby,


Legend. Thank you for that. I had a feeling the names could have been poorly transcribed. And yes that was the first thought that came to mind about the stamps- but didn't realise it was such a big deal haha. Will grab that census and report back!

Have a great night Looby!

EB.

Lillis (IRE)
McKenna (IRE)
Minehan (IRE)
Prest (ENG)
Gowland (ENG)
Ashby (ENG)
Brand (SCOT)
McLean (SCOT)
McDonald (SCOT)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #11 on: Friday 06 September 19 09:17 BST (UK) »


from Government Gazette -  Detained for bearing insufficient stamps -
Mrs BRAND, Larbert near Falkirk, Stirlingshire Scotland.


Hi EB,

I took a wee look into the above piece of info supplied by wivenhoe.

I had read this as Mrs Brand from Larbet near Falkirk had been detained for bearing insufficient stamps  ::)  and thought it strange to arrest someone for not having enough stamps on a letter! Although knowing the petty crimes some souls were transported for it maybe it wasn't so strange !

However I've discovered the original snippet on Trove in The Inquirer and Commercial News (Perth W.A.) on 29th October 1856.  Transcribed below.

The snippet is headed    Government Gazette
                                            October 28
                                            The following list of unclaimed letters is published.
                                             Coin, Mr Thomas ; Fowler, Mr Robert; Freeman, Mr Joseph
                                             Detained for bearing insufficient stamps  - Mrs Brand, Larbet near
                                             Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland.

From this I now realise that it is the letter which has been detained not Mrs Brand !  ;D
So either Mrs Brand sent a letter which had been detained In Australia until full postage paid or more likely the letter was to be sent to Mrs Brand in Scotland and didn't bear enough stamps.

Phew, at least Mrs Brand not in prison for the lack of a stamp.

Looby  :)





Offline EBrand

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #12 on: Friday 06 September 19 09:30 BST (UK) »

Hi EB,

I took a wee look into the above piece of info supplied by wivenhoe.

I had read this as Mrs Brand from Larbet near Falkirk had been detained for bearing insufficient stamps  ::)  and thought it strange to arrest someone for not having enough stamps on a letter! Although knowing the petty crimes some souls were transported for it maybe it wasn't so strange !

However I've discovered the original snippet on Trove in The Inquirer and Commercial News (Perth W.A.) on 29th October 1856.  Transcribed below.

The snippet is headed    Government Gazette
                                            October 28
                                            The following list of unclaimed letters is published.
                                             Coin, Mr Thomas ; Fowler, Mr Robert; Freeman, Mr Joseph
                                             Detained for bearing insufficient stamps  - Mrs Brand, Larbet near
                                             Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland.

From this I now realise that it is the letter which has been detained not Mrs Brand !  ;D
So either Mrs Brand sent a letter which had been detained In Australia until full postage paid or more likely the letter was to be sent to Mrs Brand in Scotland and didn't bear enough stamps.

Phew, at least Mrs Brand not in prison for the lack of a stamp.

Looby  :)


Aha! Now that makes sense. Thanks for making heads and tails of that. I'm happy to hear that she wasn't detained.

Just waiting to hear back from my uncle, who will be grabbing the 1841 census for me.


Thanks Looby :)


EB
Lillis (IRE)
McKenna (IRE)
Minehan (IRE)
Prest (ENG)
Gowland (ENG)
Ashby (ENG)
Brand (SCOT)
McLean (SCOT)
McDonald (SCOT)

Offline EBrand

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #13 on: Friday 06 September 19 12:06 BST (UK) »
Yes, you should be able to find the original record in Scotlands People.

I did a search on Freecen for the name Brand in 1841 in Culross and there is a David Brand age 70 a blacksmith. There is no Janet. I would assume she had died.

Looby :)

Unfortunately that option is one I had looked at before. That David is living with an Elizabeth and John Forrester (at first I  thought it could have been an option because David and Janet had a daughter named Elisabeth) but upon attaining Elisabeth Forrester's death cert, it turns out her mother's maiden surname was Ferguson, not Spittal like it should be.

I should mention that David Brand and Janet Spittal had 6 children.
Jean Brand born 16/06/1808 Culross
David Brand born 01/02/1810 Culross
Janet Brand born 02/05/1813 Culross
Elisabeth Brand born 1815 Culross
George Brand born 03/11/1816 Culross
Euphemia Brand born 14/06/1818 Culross

EB.
Lillis (IRE)
McKenna (IRE)
Minehan (IRE)
Prest (ENG)
Gowland (ENG)
Ashby (ENG)
Brand (SCOT)
McLean (SCOT)
McDonald (SCOT)

Offline EBrand

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 06 September 19 12:20 BST (UK) »
Okay so I am officially quite confused.
Looby, in the census search you did and found David Brand age 70, he was living with a John and Elizabeth Forrester. At first I thought this was a lead but on discovering Elisabeth's mother's maiden name was Jane Ferguson, and not Janet Spittal, I dismissed it. I have the image of that 1841 census for John and the Forresters, and the ages are definitely as they are listed in the index.
HOWEVER, I just looked at George Brand's brother David b.1810. His wife is called Janet Ferguson. I know this is accurate as one of his daughter's is named Janet Spittal Brand.
Am I not seeing something here, or am I looking too closely...? ??? ???

EB.
Lillis (IRE)
McKenna (IRE)
Minehan (IRE)
Prest (ENG)
Gowland (ENG)
Ashby (ENG)
Brand (SCOT)
McLean (SCOT)
McDonald (SCOT)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 06 September 19 12:33 BST (UK) »
Hi EB,

You got the maiden name of Elizabeth Forrester (Brand) on her death certificate.
Who was the informant of her death?
Remember the information provided on a death certificate can be inaccurate ::)
The info is only as accurate as the memory or knowledge of person providing it. Perhaps the person didn't know Elizabeth's mother's maiden name and guessed (using another name in the family) or misremembered. It happened and no-one at the registrar's would double check it.

So don't rule them out yet as father and sister to your George  ;D

Looby  :)

Offline EBrand

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 06 September 19 12:39 BST (UK) »
Hi EB,

You got the maiden name of Elizabeth Forrester (Brand) on her death certificate.
Who was the informant of her death?
Remember the information provided on a death certificate can be inaccurate ::)
The info is only as accurate as the memory or knowledge of person providing it. Perhaps the person didn't know Elizabeth's mother's maiden name and guessed (using another name in the family) or misremembered. It happened and no-one at the registrar's would double check it.

So don't rule them out yet as father and sister to your George  ;D

Looby  :)

That could very well be the case, Looby.
The informant was her niece, a G. Day.
She died in 1889 aged 83, which would have left her birth at 1806 not 1815 like in the parish records.
I just wish there was something concrete  :P

EB.
Lillis (IRE)
McKenna (IRE)
Minehan (IRE)
Prest (ENG)
Gowland (ENG)
Ashby (ENG)
Brand (SCOT)
McLean (SCOT)
McDonald (SCOT)

Offline Falkyrn

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Re: Don't know where to go from here?
« Reply #17 on: Friday 06 September 19 12:42 BST (UK) »
Just to clarify a point from your original post - A precognition is a formal interview of a witness (or witnesses) before a trial or other legal procedure to determine the strength of the evidence.