Author Topic: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837  (Read 983 times)

Offline BushInn1746

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Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« on: Saturday 07 September 19 08:34 BST (UK) »
The National Archives, Kew ... RG 4/3713 Kingston upon Hull, Mill Street Chapel, Yorkshire, Denomination: Primitive Methodist: Births and Baptisms 1788 to 1837
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2493824

There are a few Mariner Birthplaces recorded in Merchant Seaman's Registers, for which no Birth Register record exists.

Regarding this 1837 document sent in by Nonconformists of Kingston upon Hull, it says ...

24 East Cheap, Spencer Street + Marle, July 15th/37 [1837]

Right Honourable Sir,
                           Herewith we send
you the book containing our registers
and it is the wish of the parties con
cerned, that it remain according to
your pleasure.
The reasons why so many baptisms
took place on the 29th & 30th Ult. were
our announcing the termination
of the late Act and our willing-
ness to baptize and register gra
tis those who should made ap
plication on the before mention
ed days.
       We Remain
          Rt Honble Sir
               Your Obdt Servants,
                     Wm Clowes
                    Wm Harland


[Likely Wm Harland, Primitive Methodist, see Hull Packet, 11th Dec 1846 & York Herald 28th October 1837]

Comment
Regarding Nonconformist Chapels, some had not been willing to record any baptisms or births before 1837.

There simply may be no Baptism or Birth record.

Mark

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 07 September 19 09:41 BST (UK) »
Up in the NE there are many Non-conformist chapels recording baptisms before 1837. Unfortunately some registers have been lost, but where they do exist they often provide more information than you find on an Anglican baptism record. Marriages are more of an issue as they tried to avoid going to the CofE and so there are many irregular border marriages which are often lacking in paper trail.
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn

Offline venelow

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 20 October 19 00:14 BST (UK) »
Hi BushInn1746

This is an important point to make.

After nearly twenty years of research I have come to the conclusion that most of my "brick walls" are caused by indifferent record keeping by early Non-Conformists.  I can hypothesize the families the missing people should be members of but it's all circumstantial.

Nearly all my missing people are born between 1780 and 1835. There may be a few "free thinkers" in the mix but I am sure that the parents flirted with Dissenters and then returned to the Anglicans. Some people in these families got baptized twice.

It's very frustrating when someone is steadfast in their age and birthplace in the census but the records are just not there and the families are not wealthy enough to lease/own land, to bother with making a Will, or putting a notice in the paper or affording an informative monument.

DNA testing is our only option.

Venelow
Canada

Offline GrahamH

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 20 October 19 07:52 BST (UK) »
Another point is that in country areas people didn't have the time or inclination to tramp over the hills to the parish church. In the area of the Ancient Parish of Glossop, where I come from, people sometimes baptised their children at non-conformist churches (which kept good records) because it was easier than walking to the parish church and sometimes didn't bother. One often finds baptisms of multiple children from a family when the Vicar caught up with them for some reason.


Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 20 October 19 08:36 BST (UK) »
Also remember that many of the clergy didn't write up the register day by day, but made notes on paper or in a notebook and wrote them up once a month (or even yearly), meaning many were lost. I have an ancestor who was parish cllerk and was twice admonished by the vicar for not recording baptisms. The same may well be true of nonconformist registers.
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon
Campbell, McMartin, McLellan, McKercher, Perthshire

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 20 October 19 11:30 BST (UK) »
Also worth remembering that there are some Non-Conformist records which have been preserved but are just not well catalogued or indexed online. If you are lucky you may also find some of your Non-Conformist ancestors listed as «Dissenters» at the back of parish registers.
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn

Offline Marmalady

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 20 October 19 14:05 BST (UK) »
Another point about Non_Conformist Registers is that, especially in the early days, for some denominations the Register was the property of the Dissenting Minister -- and if he transferred to a new Chapel he took the register with him -- so records could end up far away from the Chapel they originated in
Wainwright - Yorkshire
Whitney - Herefordshire
Watson -  Northamptonshire
Trant - Yorkshire
Helps - all
Needham - Derbyshire
Waterhouse - Derbyshire
Northing - all

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Some Baptisms Not Recorded before English Civil Registration of 1837
« Reply #7 on: Monday 21 October 19 12:31 BST (UK) »
Hello

All very good points made and very likely responsible for our brickwall ancestors.

John Wesley went round on his preaching tours to many towns and places during the 18th Century and drew great interest. Seems some people only went to the Parish Church at Marriage and to the churchyard for Burial.

Interesting a Charles Wesley too, it seems Wesley founded a Chapel at Brayton, possibly before the one at Selby. [Selby, Yorkshire built 1785]. No wonder we have ancestor trouble.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/cracked-the-wesley-code-909657.html

I've read that some nonconformists attended the parish church Sunday morning to invite people afterward, to their own chapels Sunday afternoon.

Apparently when some were asked by the vicar about their non-attendance at the parish church, they claimed they were attenders at Quaker or Jewish meetings, to avoid church sanctions for non-attendance.

Mark