Author Topic: Irish Army Questions  (Read 2548 times)

Offline Sinann

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 19 September 19 13:29 BST (UK) »
you need the birth Certs of children born in Ireland. Only €4 for a photocopy
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do

You should be able to get the details you need on FamilySearch.

Offline onyxandopal

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 19 September 19 13:40 BST (UK) »
He would have been about 43 when he was in the Warwickshire Reg. That photo he looks a lot younger. The cap badge does look like the 'FF' badge on the Free State Army uniform.

Could I presume that once he came back from WW1, he joined the Irish Army and/or gained civilian employment as a labourer until he moved to Birmingham in 1929ish (and until he was called up for service in WW2 in 1939).

And, if he was in the Free State Army - was this a good thing?

Offline onyxandopal

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 19 September 19 13:54 BST (UK) »
OK, so reading about the civil war, it appears that 'after the onset of the civil war, the guard was rapidly expanded by recruitment of many more men, including Irish veterans of the British Army'.

This makes sense.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 19 September 19 13:59 BST (UK) »
Free State Army was just a normal (legal) Army.
You're getting a bit caught up with the good bad thing.
It's important not to colour events of the past with more recent events.
The original IRA are Irelands heroes. Michael Collins and such like.
The Free State Army was formed out of the IRA.
The later forms of the IRA were made up of people who would have objected to the Free State and its Army.


Offline onyxandopal

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 19 September 19 16:33 BST (UK) »
Free State Army was just a normal (legal) Army.
You're getting a bit caught up with the good bad thing.
It's important not to colour events of the past with more recent events.
The original IRA are Irelands heroes. Michael Collins and such like.
The Free State Army was formed out of the IRA.
The later forms of the IRA were made up of people who would have objected to the Free State and its Army.

Yes, that's basically what I wanted to know, and why I wanted to know what the difference was because I presumed the IRA of yesteryear, was not the same as we know it today, but I have no clue about this stuff at all so wanted to check I was interpreting the internet correctly. I don't live in Ireland so just wanted to be sure.

Thank you for your help, you've been really helpful.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 19 September 19 16:55 BST (UK) »
Free State Army was just a normal (legal) Army.
You're getting a bit caught up with the good bad thing.
It's important not to colour events of the past with more recent events.

Exactly what I was thinking.
The situation was (and is) complex. What happened in Ireland 100 years ago was a part of 700 years of sometimes violent history in Ireland, Britain and Europe. The current political impasse between the three is a legacy of the partition of Ireland almost a century ago.
The war of independence and the civil war which followed split some families and fractured friendships.
Some participants believed they were fighting for a noble cause, whichever side they were on. Each of the many sides could argue that they were defending their country, or their part of the country, or their community, or their comrades. In the course of that, some took actions or made decisions which they would not have done in normal times. Good people did bad things.  Some actions were pro-active, others were reactive.  People got caught up in events over which they had no control, and their freedom of action and decision-taking was curtailed. Each action from the Volunteers provoked repression by Crown forces, which stoked resentment, leading to further action, followed by increased repression, and so it escalated.
 One side's heroes were another side's villains. Heroes became villains and villains turned into heroes in some cases.
The only certainty is that everyone is a loser in a civil war.

The outbreak of World War 1 caused a split in the Irish Volunteers. Many joined the British Army. 
Cowban

Offline Sinann

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 19 September 19 16:56 BST (UK) »
It's much the same in any country who have been in this position.
You have a force considered to be occupiers
You have (illegal) freedom fighters
The occupiers leave
The freedom fighters become the legal army
In Ireland's case the freedom fighters split between those who agreed with the treaty and those who don't.
Pro treaty become the legal army as they got the goodies which had been controlled by the former occupiers.
Anti treaty become the illegal army. You have Civil War
Which side is good or bad depends on your point of view regards the treaty.
The treaty holds, Civil War ends the illegal army as such melts away,
until you get to the modern era, but that is a different story and generation.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 19 September 19 17:11 BST (UK) »
Yes, that's basically what I wanted to know, and why I wanted to know what the difference was because I presumed the IRA of yesteryear, was not the same as we know it today, but I have no clue about this stuff at all so wanted to check I was interpreting the internet correctly.

The IRA has split into factions or re-invented itself several times over the past century. The Irish Republican Brotherhood existed before the IRA.
Sinn Fein began as a political organisation.
Pay careful attention to sources when you are researching these organisations, as some may be biased.
Cowban

Offline dathai

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Re: Irish Army Questions
« Reply #35 on: Friday 20 September 19 07:40 BST (UK) »