Samlesbury Hall paintings

[aschiebe]

Hi there,

I am brand-new to this forum, so if this inquiry isn't in the right place, I apologize.

Would someone be able to go to Samlesbury Hall and inquire about 2 paintings they have there? They are of a man and woman in Puritan dress. I would LOVE to see full-length, high-res picture of each of them, and for someone to tell me if there are signatures on them somewhere. The common assumption that I've come across in my research is that they are paintings of Edward (b.1590-1622ish) and Alice, née Carpenter (b.1590-1670) Southworth, but I don't have any proof to substantiate this claim...

For reference, I have some very low quality screenshots of the paintings in question.



Thanks in advance to anyone who is willing and able to help me out with this!

[BumbleB]

Welcome to RootsChat 

Have you tried contacting Samlesbury Hall?  There are contact details on their website:

https://www.samlesburyhall.co.uk/

[aschiebe]

Hi BumbleB, and thanks for the reply!

I have contacted Samlesbury several times about the paintings, and only once did I ever receive a reply. They stated that they didn't know who the paintings were supposed to be of and did not have any records of them ever having been purchased....

I find it somewhat hard to believe that absolutely nothing is known about these paintings, and I still hold out hope that someone can figure this mystery out. Being in the States, it's a bit hard for me to do some firsthand sleuthing of Salmesbury and the Lancashire area, so naturally, I was super excited to find this forum!

The reason it's of such interest to me is that Edward and Alice Southworth are my 10th great grandparents, and Samlesbury Hall is the ancestral family home of the Southworths. I came across the supposed painting of Alice very early on in my genealogical research and was excited at the possibility of a painting existing of someone so far back in my family tree. However, I quickly learned that it was not for sure a painting of Alice and wanted to to do some research myself to see if it was or wasn't.

Unfortunately, I've only hit dead ends. At the very least, if a signature on the portraits is visible, that would be something to go on. Knowing who the artist is could help narrow down who the couple is.

[BumbleB]

Let's hope that someone will be willing to look.  If I lived in the area, I would do it myself, but I don't 

[AntonyMMM]

It would very unusual for a painting of that period to be signed by an artist - I suspect knowing that  they are "possibly" or "could be" Edward & Alice Southworth is about as good as you are going to get.


(Salmesbury Hall is a place I know well from my own childhood, but no longer live anywhere close)

[heywood]

Hello and welcome 

Do you know that they are definitely exhibited at the hall?
There are various references to Alice in family histories and trees. This is just one example

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ohf/

I wondered if this one is in US?

I have always thought the Southworths of Samlesbury were Catholic - St John Southworth was born 1592.

Heywood

[davidft]

Deleted, information already given

[aschiebe]

Hello and welcome 

Do you know that is definitely exhibited at the hall?
There are various references to it in family histories and trees. This is just one example

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ohf/

I wondered if it is in US?

I have always thought the Southworths of Samlesbury were Catholic - St John Southworth was born 1592.

Heywood

Yes, the paintings are, for sure, at Samlesbury. There's a photo on Alamy showing the parlour area, and you can see the one painting on the wall in the background. And it is interesting that, in a predominantly Catholic family home, there would be paintings of a Puritan couple.

https://www.alamy.com/grand-baronial-hall-in-samlesbury-hall-in-lancashire-in-northern-england-image4127496.html

I've never seen a reference to any paintings in wills, etc. I've read Alice's will, and it makes no mention of paintings, nor do her son's wills. My assumption is that, if they are of Edward and Alice, then they were left in England before their planned voyage to Plymouth Colony. They were supposed to be on the Mayflower with the rest of the Pilgrims in September of 1620. But Edward, who apparently suffered from poor health, was ill and died sometime between 1620-22 in London. Funnily enough, Alice came over in 1623 on the ship, the Anne, and married the governor of Plymouth Colony, William Bradford!

That's a good point about there not being a signature on the paintings due to the era in which they were painted. I wonder if there are any other places an artist would have "signed" his name? On the back perhaps?

[heywood]

Yes, I see what you mean.
It’s best to put a link to your picture for copyright reasons though.

Interestingly there are other pictures of the parlour also without that particular one.

It is a wedding venue and this photo is from that site
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ohh/

This is an older one
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpsmithbarney/21167153134