Charles Newenham and Ann Bowler, Snugmore (near Kinsale)

[hallmark]

Maybe RSCI ??

https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/about

[hallmark]

Another relative thought Mary was an only child but the letter says differently. No surname, just "Harry" and an Abbeyleix address (see previous thread) https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=684501.0
I tried finding a Henry Cole who attended Trinity College because in the letter he discusses working at Abbeyleix as probably a surgeon in training. He mentions that he has been assigned there by the governor and was going to be moved again and he hoped not back to Dublin. He seemed younger than Mary because he mentions being advised by both Mary and her husband James Oldham to take the position. It is a complicated story with many little clues but not enough the make all of the connection (probably like most families).

Ahhh.... it is on this thread

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=684501.0

[Kilmonoge]

Apologies - I only stumbled on this thread now.

In relation to Snugmore House, the ruins of it are still there - although a new house has been built nearby.
You can see them in the photos and video embedded in this article from the Irish Examiner, when the new house was being sold in 2018.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/your-chance-to-live-the-dream-in-kinsale-844975.html

I have been researching Snugmore House recently - I'm originally from the Belgooly/Kinsale area. The house is well known in local folklore due to a major land dispute which occurred there from 1911-1919. I believe on one of your posts I saw the Bowen family mentioned - they feature indirectly in the Land dispute.

The lands were sold in the 1860s - the descriptive particulars are in the attachment below.

Also - there appear to be 2 wills belonging to Charles Newenham of Snugmore in the National Archives in Dublin - one dated 1848 and one dated 1851.
Would be very interested in your connection to the house.

Regards

Fergal

[akissling]

Thanks so much Fergal! Very interesting information! Charles Newenham died in 1851. I am interested in the first will but can't open the jpg for some reason. My great great grandmother Mary Cole lived in Snugmore House for a while. She ended up in New Zealand after marrying. Funny that the people in the new home went there as well. I am happy to trade more details on my family and would love to hear about that dispute in the 1900s. Feel free to send me a PM and I will give you my email. I have Charles will from 1851 and some family information. My Aunt was in Kinsale in the 1990s but I hadn't discovered the information I have now so she didn't know what to look for while there. She said it was beautiful.

[AlanWatson]

Hi,

I have only just noticed this thread and am trying to catch up.

I have Charles Burton Newenham (about 1807 -1857) in my tree and can provide details of his ancestry, but as I think you have worked out, I don't think that he is the person that you are looking for. I don't have a Charles Newenham who married an Ann Bowler.

Charles Burton Newenham was a descendant of John Newenham mayor of Cork. His family is described in Burke's Irish Family Records here http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/nbl/lh_nbl_show5.php?mysession=&choice=&id=052166&pdfpage=916

Specifically, he was a child of Robert O'Callaghan Newenham and Susanna Hoare. Robert was son of  Sir Edward Newenham MP (1732-1814).

The Newenham Deanes were descendants of Sir Thomas Deane (1792-1871) and Eliza Newenham (1800-1851) who married in 1827. Eliza was a daughter of Robert O'Callaghan Newenham and Susanna Hoare.

Many of the Newenhams and many of the Deanes were either architects or civil engineers or both. Lots of them have entries in the Dictionary of Irish Architects. (Just Google 'Newenham' or 'Deane' (or both) and 'Dictionary of Irish Architects.)

I can provide a tree for large parts of the Newenham/Deane and Newenham Deane family if that would help and would be happy to answer specific questions if I can.

The marriage that Hallmark found between Alexander Sharp Deane and Elizabeth Newenham seems to be a second link between the Newenham and Deane families that I wasn't aware of.

An Alexander Sharp Deane has a DIA entry here https://www.dia.ie/architects/view/1431/DEANE-ALEXANDERSHARP

You will see that he was the brother of Thomas Deane and that he died in 1847, when the ASD that Hallmark found got married. This ASD seems to have had a son ASD who married an Elizabeth Hargreave in 1851. The ASD who married Elizabeth Newenham in 1847 seems to have been a third one https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG68-PQN?treeref=94YF-ZPV

His father, James Roche Deane, was the brother of Thomas Deane and the first Alexander Sharpe Deane.

I still haven't traced where her father, Charles Newenham fits into the Newenham family tree.

Alan


Alan

[akissling]

Thanks for all of this information Alan! I have the father of my Charles (c1805-1851) as William Henry Worth Newenham who died in 1824. Charles and his sister Elizabeth had a dispute with their inheritance-their brother Henry died and they were trying to get the money: https://csorp.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?browse=true&category=27&subcategory=188&offset=1160&browseresults=true
WHW Newenham was named in the will of his son Charles.
I have set up a family tree of just this line on Ancestry and will send you the link. I would be interesting in seeing your tree and where the might meet on your tree if that is ok. I will send a PM. Thanks so much!

[AlanWatson]

Detailed abstracts of wills of Newenham of Marybore' in Co. Cork and of Cork City, 1695 -- 1784.
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.139, pp.182-7

You can see them here http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000531511#page/186/mode/1up

I don't know the first testator (Elizabeth Newenham, widow). The second is John Newenham, mayor of cork. The third is his son Thomas. The next four wills are for my Quaker Newenham family (see this thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=837880.msg7033482#msg7033482), being John Newenham, Quaker and clothier, his son John, his son George and John's son Richard.

Alan

[AlanWatson]

I have the father of my Charles (c1805-1851) as William Henry Worth Newenham who died in 1824. Charles and his sister Elizabeth had a dispute with their inheritance-their brother Henry died and they were trying to get the money: https://csorp.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?browse=true&category=27&subcategory=188&offset=1160&browseresults=true
WHW Newenham was named in the will of his son Charles.
I have set up a family tree of just this line on Ancestry and will send you the link. I would be interesting in seeing your tree and where the might meet on your tree if that is ok. I will send a PM. Thanks so much!

I think that the father named in the petition and in Charles' Canterbury Court will (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_309748-00056?pId=13277) was William Worth Newenham. The petition states that their father left the three younger children 2,500 charged on the estate of William Henry Worth Newenham, who is not described as their father.

Given that William Worth Newenham is described in the petition as 'of Coolmore', he and William Henry Worth Newenham were obviously the father and son with those names described in Burke.

William Worth Newenham of Coolmore b 5 Feb 1761, m 1783, Louisa 4th daughter of Henry Sandford and sister of 1st Baron Mount Sandford ... and d 1 Dec 1814 having had issue

 1 William Henry Worth (of whom presently)
 2 Thomas b 4 Oct 1788; d 1799
 3 George b 1792; dsp 7 Dec 1815
 1 Mary b 12 Aug, d Oct 1786

The eldest son
William Henry Worth Newenham of Coolmore, b 10 June 1785, m 25 July 1807 Catherine (d Feb 1858) only dau of Robert Sterne Tighe ... and dsp 4 Sept 1842 when he was s in Coolmore by his cousin
The Rev Thomas Newenham rector of Kilworth b 14 Oct 1784 and dunm April 1849 when he was s by his nephew
The Rev Edward Henry Newenham MA of Coolmore JP ...

The facts presented in the petition (dated 22 July 1824) suggest that William Worth Newenham left his estate to his eldest son William Henry Worth Newenham subject to a legacy of £2,500 charged against the estate and left in trust for his three minor children. By 1824 one of them, Henry, had died and the other two, having attained majority, applied for his share which had been forfeit to the Crown. (William Worth Newenham may have made other arrangements for his son George who was also alive when his father died, but had already reached majority.)

This implies that Burke omitted the three minor children, Charles, Henry and Elizabeth, which is conceivable, but it doesn't explain how Charles and Elizabeth were overlooked in favour of a cousin when their brother William Henry Worth Newenham died in 1842, and then again when the cousin died in 1849, given that Charles lived until 1851.

I really can't explain this.

Alan

[akissling]

Hi Alan,
It is certainly odd! Sadly, I do not have the birth or baptism of Charles, Elizabeth or Henry. You can see in the tree that Elizabeth married Richard Cross Moore. They had a daughter Isabella. Charles married Ann Bowler and they had a son William Henry Newenham. These two first cousins married. William Henry drops out of sight after his son is born (1858 at Snugmore House). By 1868 Isabella is back in Dublin and seems to be living as a widow (Mrs Newenham in a directory). On a sad note, Isabella lives with her sister-in-law and they die just two days apart of influenza.