Author Topic: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)  (Read 2758 times)

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #9 on: Friday 18 October 19 03:16 BST (UK) »
Do the marriage details match on the two Victorian birth certs for Peter and Elizabeth's children?

These families were Wesleyan.  The marriage of Samuel and Margaret is here, and her maiden name can be confirmed by the birth reg of daughter Hannah and baptism of son William.

Durham Diocese, Marriage Bonds & Allegations, 1692-1900

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SV3-W2X
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6SV3-H58

You need to find out if the Wesleyan marriage registers for the Kirkhaugh/Haltwhistle area have survived.

Debra  :)

These are not my peeps though. My Samuel was not born until 1823. My Samuel married Agnes Thompson in Gretna Green in about 1848.
Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #10 on: Friday 18 October 19 03:26 BST (UK) »
Could this be her on the 1841, it’s not so far from her place of birth?:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7W6-L8H

In case you don’t have it, Peter’s death notice, 3rd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article209577899

Jamjar

Yes, it could be! If it is then she was a twin by the looks. The only thing is that I also have a possibility of Elizabeth in 1841 working as a servant with the Robson family who I found Peter and Elizabeth living with, in 1851.
Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #11 on: Friday 18 October 19 03:33 BST (UK) »
Have you looked at a WILKINSON connection for Elizabeth, given that it is son Joseph’s middle name?

An aside, write up on death of Joseph: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article114932744

A Stephenson/Wilkinson marriage in Allendale:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVNS-DVZ

Notice for son John Stevenson Armstrong: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article73327093

Jamjar

I hadn't connected Wilkinson with Elizabeth as Peter's mother was Elizabeth Wilkinson 1798-1837 who married John Armstrong in Kirkhaugh in 1817. The Armstrong side is pretty under control so I have based my thoughts around them, so perhaps I should widen my vision and think there could be a Wilkinson connection on her side. These reivers were pretty tight.  ;D 
Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #12 on: Friday 18 October 19 03:38 BST (UK) »
Sorry, I just realised I am looking at the wrong Samuel.  That one was, I think, Peter's uncle?

Debra  :)

Well, how exciting is that! thank you! I knew 5x great-uncle Sam was born 22 May 1797 and married a Margaret?? from the 1851 Census. So you have solved this little mystery. Thank you again! x
Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee


Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #13 on: Friday 18 October 19 03:52 BST (UK) »
You may be wasting your time looking for a marriage they could have said they were married  to legitimise their children.
My great uncle D had a son in Belfast then a daughter in Scotland..I looked for marriage everywhere before finding daughters baptism record said the parents were unmarried..he died when she was a baby but the common law wife used his surname on all records. Daughters Marriage cert also noted that she was illegitimate daughter of D

I hear you!... but my peeps did seem to marry as I have found other marriage records for the clan. It seems that it is not a coincidence nor surprising that it is believed that they married in Gretna Green as did his brother, Sam. The Armstrongs identify strongly with being Scotts. Perhaps they wanted a Scottish marriage, perhaps they had children before they married which was commonly accepted practice in Scotland?
Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #14 on: Friday 18 October 19 04:07 BST (UK) »

These families were Wesleyan. 
You need to find out if the Wesleyan marriage registers for the Kirkhaugh/Haltwhistle area have survived.

Debra  :)

Hi Debra,

I don't know how to discover if the Wesleyan registers have survived. ???

I researched the local Lambley church and if they were "Primitive"  Methodists then this may explain it. The first chapel was built at the top of Chapel Lane by the Methodist New Connexion in 1807. In 1847 the Primitive Methodists bought a plot of land on Main Street on which the present Methodist Chapel stands. For a while the ‘Prims’ used the Chapel Lane building but in 1848 it was bought by the Wesleyans and the ‘Primitive’ Methodists had to find other accommodation. Until their own chapel was ready they held their services in a barn in the grounds of Primrose Cottage Main Street. The chapel opened in August 1849.

Elizabeth and Peter are living in Lambley in 1851 in Chapel New House... their eldest son was born in Haltwhistle in 1849, their daughter Hannah was born in Lambley. So they could have married in Lambley but ...now I don't know if they were Primitive Methodists or Wesleyan. and why are others so convinced they went to Gretna Green?
Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee

Offline Dundee

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,386
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #15 on: Friday 18 October 19 04:23 BST (UK) »
Someone with more knowledge of Wesleyans will probably come along to explain better than me, but I think that if they were married and a registrar was not in attendance (there is no civil registration) then the marriage may not have been recorded at all.

https://northumberlandarchives.com/docs/METHODIST%20REGISTERS.pdf

Debra  :)

Offline kdsoph

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Australian Heritage - why did my ancestors leave?
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #16 on: Friday 18 October 19 06:58 BST (UK) »
I have had a thought and please don't hold back if you think I am nuts (be gentle though). I think that Peter and Elizabeth followed the traditional naming patters.

these are their children;

1. John Stephenson ARMSTRONG 1849–1917
Eldest son - John named for Peter's father John Armstrong 1792-1872

2. Hannah Jane Armstrong (butcher's wife) 1850–1917
Eldest Daughter - Hannah should be named for Elizabeth's mother

3. Joseph Wilkinson Armstrong 1854–1912
2nd son Joseph should be named for Elizabeth's father

4. Thomas George Armstrong 1858–1925
3rd son should be named for Peter so this breaks the rules

5. Elizabeth Ann Armstrong 1863–1889
2nd daughter is named for Peter's mother Elizabeth Wilkinson


so I could be looking for a Joseph Stephenson and a Hannah ?

Does this sound reasonable?

Fordham, Armstrong, Blanch, Baker, Jackson, Clarke, Moffat, Wall, Heaney, Caples, Callinan, Hennessy

Medieval: Browne, Cooke, Scot, Bridgwood, Mee

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,672
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth Stephenson 1822- 1897 has no parents (Northumberland)
« Reply #17 on: Friday 18 October 19 07:44 BST (UK) »
Can you please list all the information on these certificates.

BDM VIC birth
6649/1863  ARMSTRONG Elizabeth Anne 
parents  Elizab STEPHENSON / Peter    @  BUNI

This birth certificate would ask for previous issue...the better to ensure that you have accounted for all children born to Peter and Elizabeth.

Death
824/1890  ARMSTRONG Peter   
parents Elizth WILKINSON / Jno     @  Cambrian Hill
age 68

Death
8034/1897 ARMSTRONG  Elizth 
parents Unknown / STEPHENSON        @   Broomfield   
age 75