Author Topic: Harry RUNDLE, British Army Soldier, born 1874, Luton, Bedfordshire UK  (Read 10895 times)

Offline tazzie

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 20 October 19 17:15 BST (UK) »
The birth of Henry Rumble......who it seem is know later as Harry Rundle is....

  Henry Rumble Dec quarter 1876 Luton. Mmn Markham

There is a death record in Birmingham in Dec quarter 1941 of....

  Henry Rumble age 65.......could this be Harry?

Tazzie
Liscoe -all
Green/Simpson/Underwood-Beds
Walker/Foulkes/Fookes/Fooks/Hedges/Lamborne-Bucks.
Stanton/Pattrick/Cooper/Fitzjohn/Holland/Spalding-London
 Rewallin/Underwood -Devon
 Casbolt-London/Cambridge
 Favell/Favel - Lincs-Beds

 This information is Crown Copyright from
   www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online jim1

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 20 October 19 17:55 BST (UK) »
A quick recap seems to be: born 1876 to Joseph & Jane Rundle/Rumble.
Married Nov. 1899 Weymouth R.O.
Moved to B'ham by 1902.
Had children up to 1910.
Career:
1) Staffs. Regt. (joined at 16 according to letter).
2) R.A. (time served).
3) RGA(SR) from 1914-17 & re-enlisted 1917 (probably under the new law (1916) re. Territorial & Reservists).
Alice hasn't heard from him pretty much from the time he went overseas in 1917.
She did however know he had been in the UK & had visited B'ham but not to see her & their children
but to see another woman who he had children with also.
Family continued to live at 3/12 or 3/14 Bacchus Rd. at least until 1931.
Harry doesn't appear to be with them after 1920.
Harry living in Fulham Rd. Sparkhill in 1927.
Living in Aubrey Rd. Sparkbrook 1939.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online jim1

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 20 October 19 20:02 BST (UK) »
Now I'm going to add to the confusion.
Harry Hales & Harry Rundle are one in the same.
1918 AV list has at Nora Ave. Fulham rd. Harry Hales no.276411 395 Siege Bty. RGA.
1918 AV list has at Parkview cottages Bacchus rd. Harry Rundle no.276411 395 Siege Bty. RGA.
If he ever went to Canada he was back by 1927.
If this was my family I would want both his marriage certs.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline Jool

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 20 October 19 22:12 BST (UK) »
I've been following this interesting thread, you've certainly thrown a cat amongst the pigeons there Jim  ;D

Electoral Register Nora Avenue:

In 1921 they are Harry and Minnie Hales
In 1922 and 1923 they are Harry and Minnie Rundle
Robbins - Wolverhampton.
Spooner - Monmouthshire & Wolverhampton.
Warner & Loundes - Dudley/Smethwick.
Dod(g)son - Heysham/Liverpool/Wolverhampton

Online Dundee

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #31 on: Monday 21 October 19 02:12 BST (UK) »
Harry RUMBLE/RUNDLE's children with Alice named in his 1914 military record:

RUMBLE, HENRY  CHARLES      BUTLER     
GRO Reference: 1902  M Quarter in WEYMOUTH  Volume 05A  Page 296

RUMBLES, ALBERT  EDWARD      BUTLER     
GRO Reference: 1903  D Quarter in KING'S NORTON  Volume 06C  Page 394

RUMBLE, EDITH  ELLEN MARIE     LE BOUTILIER     
GRO Reference: 1906  D Quarter in KING'S NORTON  Volume 06C  Page 391

RUMBLE, LESLIE  CLARENCE KING     BUTLER     
GRO Reference: 1908  J Quarter in KING'S NORTON  Volume 06C  Page 431

RUMBLE, NELLIE  LOUISA      BUTLER     
GRO Reference: 1910  D Quarter in KING'S NORTON  Volume 06C  Page 385

They married in 1899 in Weymouth.

In 1901 they are in Portland, Harry is Henry, a Gunner in the RGA, and Alice is 'Annie'.

Class: RG13; Piece: 1997; Folio: 94; Page: 22

In 1911 they are in Sparkbrook and Harry is a packer for a jeweller.

Class: RG14; Piece: 17899; Schedule Number: 220

In 1901, Harry HALES is a Sergeant in the 6th Worcestershire Regiment and is boarding with the INCHLEY family in Balsall Heath.

Class: RG13; Piece: 2810; Folio: 216; Page: 16

Debra  :)

Offline PIGLET392006

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #32 on: Monday 21 October 19 08:28 BST (UK) »
Thank you all so much for your help. It's been amazing to find out some of these things  :)

Baptism....

Harry Rumble born 7 October 1876 baptised 28 October 1880 Christ church Luton Bedfordshire.
Father Joseph mother Jane.

1891 family are in Kings Norton Worcestershire.RG 12  2335/47

Joseph Rumble hd 48 hatter Bedfordshire
Jane Rumble.   Wi  50Buckinghamshire
Nellie dau 21 milliner Bedfordshire
Alfred son 18 railway fireman Luton
Harry son 14 pianoforte finisher Bedfordshire.

Tazzie

Thanks tazzie for this information. I knew Harry's father's name was Joseph but didn't know what his mother's name was (Jane Markham), nor that of his older siblings.

2 possibly useful bits from his record:
no father's name but I notice a Mallett witness.
It also shows he was a time served Artilleryman pre 1914.
His address on this is the same as the Electoral Roll.

A "Mallett witness" definitely throws a spanner in the works, or it could be pure coincidence perhaps?

In 1901, Harry HALES is a Sergeant in the 6th Worcestershire Regiment and is boarding with the INCHLEY family in Balsall Heath.

Class: RG13; Piece: 2810; Folio: 216; Page: 16

Debra  :)

Debra, I did come across this information somewhere, regarding Harry Hales boarding with the Inchleys, & I think he was quite a bit older than Minnie when they married in 1904 at St Agatha's Church in Sparkbrook, Birmingham, UK. As stated earlier in this thread, they produced 7 children. Could anyone help with finding out if Harry Hales died during World War I, i.e., killed in action?

With regards to the letters Alice Butler writes to the British Army, approximately from the start of World War I -  mid 1920's, searching for her husband, I believe this is around the time Harry Rundle met Minnie Hales (nee Inchley), & fathered more children, one of which is my grandfather, Joseph John Rundle. Minnie died in 1923, 2 years after my grandfather was born. Could anyone help with finding out the names and/or dates of birth of the other children of Harry Rundle & Minnie Hales' relationship?

The Absent voter' list (1918) has Harry Rundle at 3/12 Bacchus Rd. B'ham.
Sgt. in a Siege Battery RFA.
Alice Maud is there in 1920 & Leslie in 1931.
1922-27 Harry is there as a Pte. 2/S.Wales Borderers.

&

Family continued to live at 3/12 or 3/14 Bacchus Rd. at least until 1931.
Harry doesn't appear to be with them after 1920.
Harry living in Fulham Rd. Sparkhill in 1927.
Living in Aubrey Rd. Sparkbrook 1939.

These details are very interesting.

Many thanks!!  :)

Offline emeltom

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #33 on: Monday 21 October 19 09:29 BST (UK) »
GRO has the following Hales children with mmn Inchley

Frederick Mar 1906 Solihull 6D 650
Elsie Maud Jun 1909 Kings Norton 6c 406
Minnie Edith Sep 1912 Kings Norton 6c 673
Ethel Mary Mar 1914 Aston 6D 806
Stanley Maurice Rundle Mar 1917 Aston 6D 681

I can't find the family in 1911

Emeltom
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Online jim1

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #34 on: Monday 21 October 19 11:49 BST (UK) »
There appears to be just the 2 children Stanley 1917 & Joseph 1921.
There's no death for Harry Hales appearing in soldiers effects or anywhere else that I can see.
As Stanley was born Jan. 1917 indicates they were together from early 1916.
Alice is constantly asking for his whereabouts believing in 1915 that he was in the Dardanelles when in fact he didn't go overseas until 1917.
It looks like he was used as a training instructor before being posted to the RGA reinforcement Coy. prior to embarkation.
Alice believed as a Special Reservist he had only to serve 1 year (as per his attestation papers) because he had been a time served soldier prior to that & she mentioned the fact he lied about his age because an SR could only serve up to 40 (in fact it was 42).
So he's using his time in the RGA to fly under the radar while he's living with Minnie.
Alice lived in north B'ham & Minnie in south B'ham so he was careful to keep them as far apart as possible but obviously she found out even though he was now assuming the role & name of Harry Hales.
As he appears on all the Electoral Rolls from 1918 up to 1927 indicates he never went to Canada.
What tangled webs we weave.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline PIGLET392006

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Re: HARRY RUNDLE, BRITISH ARMY SOLDIER, BORN 1874, LUTON, BEDFORDSHIRE, UK
« Reply #35 on: Monday 21 October 19 18:00 BST (UK) »
Hi emeltom & jim1, thank you so much for that extra information. It's slowly being pieced together!

1922-27 Harry is there as a Pte. 2/S.Wales Borderers.

Could this be Harry & Alice's eldest son Henry Charles instead? He was born in 1902, so this could be him.

GRO has the following Hales children with mmn Inchley

Frederick Mar 1906 Solihull 6D 650
Elsie Maud Jun 1909 Kings Norton 6c 406
Minnie Edith Sep 1912 Kings Norton 6c 673
Ethel Mary Mar 1914 Aston 6D 806
Stanley Maurice Rundle Mar 1917 Aston 6D 681

I can't find the family in 1911

Emeltom

It's interesting to note that Stanley's surname above says Rundle. Joseph & Harry are missing off this list (Rundle or Hales?). Joseph John Rundle born 1921? Harry Rundle, the father/stepfather?

There's no death for Harry Hales appearing in soldiers effects or anywhere else that I can see.

So he's using his time in the RGA to fly under the radar while he's living with Minnie.
Alice lived in north B'ham & Minnie in south B'ham so he was careful to keep them as far apart as possible but obviously she found out even though he was now assuming the role & name of Harry Hales.
As he appears on all the Electoral Rolls from 1918 up to 1927 indicates he never went to Canada.
What tangled webs we weave.

I'm really curious as to what happened to Harry Hales, so have to keep researching that one!

I would love to know what happened to Alice Butler as well, particularly after 1920. As mentioned before, Minnie died in 1923.

Family continued to live at 3/12 or 3/14 Bacchus Rd. at least until 1931.
Harry doesn't appear to be with them after 1920.
Harry living in Fulham Rd. Sparkhill in 1927.
Living in Aubrey Rd. Sparkbrook 1939.

I'm curious to know if Harry is living on his own in Fulham Rd, Sparkhill in 1927, & the same for the Aubrey Rd, Sparkbrook address in 1939? Or could it be that he's living at another Rundle family member's address, i.e., older sibling or his father, in either 1927 & 1939?

Many thanks!  :)