Harry RUNDLE, British Army Soldier, born 1874, Luton, Bedfordshire UK

[jim1]

I can see Edwin's marriage but can't place him in this family, there is an Edward is this him?
On saying that I can't see a service record for him under either name.

[Nodrog50]

Thanks for looking, jim1.
Edwin Rumble (b.1868, Luton) is similar to Harry Hales in that he's difficult to pin down & then does a disappearing act; they're probably carousing together somewhere & having a good laugh at us!

[jim1]

The nearest I can get to a death is Edward Rundle d. 1896 age 26.
Death registered in Portsea which was home to a large RGA garrison.
Age is a bit out but that's not unusual & he may have been posted there.
I also notice Anthony was born in Plymouth so in the right area.
That's if I'm looking at the right family.

[Nodrog50]

You could be on to something there, jim1.
I'll follow it up. I've been doing this digging for abt 30 yrs now but still miss things.
I think it sometimes just takes another pair of eyes!

[PIGLET392006]

Hi Nodrog50 & welcome, I've sent you a reply to the personal message.

Can you please tell me how many children your maternal grandmother, Edith Ellen Marie Rundle, & her husband Henry Pittaway, had together? And you were saying one of them was your "Uncle Tony" - is this Anthony M Pittaway, born 28th August 1939? Can you confirm that Anthony married Gillian Dolman in 1964, & did he die in 1992?

Looking at what you have, I now see that I've made an error & that the Harry Rundle at Bacchus Rd in 1926/7 was my gt-uncle Harry who I knew served in the army, though I didn't know it was The South Wales Borderers (thanks for that).

If Edith Pittaway is definitely your maternal grandmother, then Harry Rundle is your great-grandfather, not great-uncle. What was the reason for this change?

Regards 

[Nodrog50]

Thanks for the reply; good to see you again, PIGLET392006.
I think we're 2nd cousins!
'Dids' & 'Harry' had 4 children, Betty (my mother), Sheila, Tony (yes, that's him) & Hazel, who's still with us.
I made an error with the Electoral register confusing our gt-grandfather with his son Henry Charles (always referred to in the family as 'Uncle Harry').
As you can see from my posts, I know quite a bit about Henry/Harry/Rumble(s)/Rundle thanks to my Gran & Mom. Unfortunately, not which of Minnie's children were his. I think my Gran may have known as she lived with that family for a while.
Regards.

[PIGLET392006]

Hi Nodrog50, so now I should be saying....welcome to the family!!

After I recently received an email telling me I had a personal message from someone (you!) in relation to Harry Rundle, I'm back on this thread for the first time since January this year. I'll have to refresh my memory by going over some of the previous messages, so please bear with me!

I started my research on RootsChat over 6 months ago & have found out some amazing information. Like yourself not really knowing anything about Minnie, I didn't know about the existence of Alice Maud or her children with Harry Rundle, or even the letters written by Alice to the British Army trying to locate her husband, or how Harry appeared to try to hide his relationship with Minnie from Alice, & so on. These particular details came as quite a shock to me when I first discovered them! I'm curious as to how Alice found out about Harry's affair with Minnie. The poor woman must've been devastated, & it's no wonder that they really couldn't patch things up.

You mentioned that you have an Aunt Hazel & that she's still alive, would she be able to remember anything? Even small details will help.

Did Harry Rundle try to get in touch with any of his other children, or was your grandmother the only one? Perhaps he didn't succeed in making amends with any of his other children, after his relationship with Minnie Hales ended with her death in 1923?

I'm very curious as to how & when Harry Rundle & Minnie Hales met, though being a sensitive subject within the family, I can imagine it wasn't easy to talk about. Do you have any information about them/their relationship? As you've read from this very long thread, after Minnie died, Harry put 4 of the children into Middlemore Children's Home - Minnie, Ethel, Stanley & Joseph. The 2 eldest, Frederick & Elsie, were perhaps too old to go into the home & have ended up elsewhere (i.e., army & domestic service). I'm still trying to research what happened to those two as well. Minnie & Ethel are the 2 children who ended up emigrating to Canada, Stanley joined the British Army after leaving Middlemore, & Joseph (my maternal grandfather) ended up in Australia. Ethel had written letters to my mother & some of her siblings over many years to keep in touch, although I'm not sure if my mother still has them as this was most likely around 30 years ago. According to my mother, apparently Minnie didn't want to keep in touch with her or her siblings for unknown reasons.

If you're curious, this is the link to my maternal grandfather's (Joseph John Rundle) NAA (National Archives of Australia) records:

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=6480713

You can see the address on his attestation papers being the Fairbridge Farm School at Pinjarra, Western Australia & letters between the Australian Army & The Salvation Army Missing Persons Unit, trying to locate Joseph John Rundle for Ethel.

I'm sure as time goes on, there'll be more amazing details that can be uncovered!

I appreciate the photos of Harry Rundle & Alice Maud. Do you have any others of either them or other family members?

I'll be keeping in touch a little more regularly from now on!

Regards 

[jim1]

Although not needed any more I've watched this & thought it might be worth putting this up again.
You ask;

I'm very curious as to how & when Harry Rundle & Minnie Hales met

As you can see they all lived within the same few streets in S. B'ham.
Although Minnie & Harry Hales don't appear in 1911 I'm pretty sure they were still in
the same area maybe even the same street.If Harry Rundle was bit of a singer & entertainer
he may have frequented the local pubs & met that way.
By the same token it wouldn't have been that hard for Alice to find out what was going on.
Where there's a bit of scandal there's always neighbours prepared to gossip about it.

[Nodrog50]

I certainly wouldn't say you're not needed anymore, jim1.
I've been thinking about when & where Harry Rundle & Minnie met as well. Harry performing locally is certainly feasible.
It looks to me as if Harry & Alice Maud were in Hockley when he re-enlisted in 1914, so he'd probably already met Minnie in Balsall Heath by then. However, that Ernest Rd. address where the Inchleys were in 1901 kept bugging me.  Then I recalled that Harry's mother, Jane, was living there, at least from 1919 to 1921. In 1901, her & Joseph are in Fernley Rd., Sparkhill, then in 1911 in Ladypool Rd., Balsall Heath, at their daughter's millinery shop. In 1901 & 1911, Harry's brother Alf & his family are in Thornhill Rd., Sparkhill. So even after moving to the other side of the city, Harry still had plenty of reasons to be in & around Balsall Heath/Sparkhill!
I too think Alice Maud probably got to hear about what Harry was up to via tittle-tattle. Perhaps she learnt about his 2 children with Minnie the same way; someone had seen Harry with Minnie & 2 young children and assumed they were his, thus adding a bit more juiciness to the gossip?