Author Topic: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?  (Read 661 times)

Offline mlrsuperstar

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John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« on: Friday 25 October 19 07:44 BST (UK) »
John Walters 1809-1889 was a  farmer at Pant Llydi Fach farm between Furnace and Five Roads.
I am trying to find his resting place along with is wife Sarah., I do not know when she died but it was after 1891 as she is still on the farm aged then about 74.
Can anyone please help ?
Thanks in advance.

Offline mlrsuperstar

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 25 October 19 08:27 BST (UK) »
I have now found out Sarah died in March 1892. and e-mailed Box to see if the burial is there

Offline anthonygos

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 28 October 19 17:23 GMT (UK) »
On the 1818-1913 map it was called Pant-y-llydu-fach I believe its the same farm and its at SN 250125-203380 if it is it maybe some help to you. I'd also be looking at the Capel's at that time...!
Dover/Moore/Gostling/Long/Lloyd/Crabb in Epping Essex and in Middlesex


Offline Talacharn

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 November 19 22:48 GMT (UK) »
Death: John Walters . Age: 81 . Birth Year (Estimated): 1808
Jul-Sep 1889 . Llanelly Volume: 11A Page: 449 Affiliate Line Number: 139

My hunch would be Rehoboth Welsh Independent Chapel, Five Roads mainly as it is the closest to the farm and has a graveyard. Built in 1819, rebuilt in 1827 and 1855, and further modified in 1875. It is still functional with a large graveyard and from Google Maps, it seems well kept.

If they were not chapel-goers then they will be buried in a church. Just because it is the closest, the chapel can say no to non-regulars, whereas the church takes all.

I will drive across tomorrow and have a look around the gravestones.

Offline Talacharn

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 05 November 19 11:35 GMT (UK) »
I looked around Rehoboth Welsh Independent Chapel and Horeb Baptist Church. Rehoboth looked good from the entrance, but they were the more recent gravestones. The slightly older ones were at the back, up a steep slope and around the sides. Many were broken, toppled or weathered unreadable. There was no sign of a Walters. Having posted, I then looked again and noticed Horeb Baptist Church, which technically is closer. Now it is closed and crumbling. There is a small graveyard, with fewer damaged stones; and again, no sign of a Walters.

Although positioned between Five Roads and Furnace, in farming 35 Acres, there would be access to the road behind that takes you to Swiss Cottage, Felinfoel and Dafen. At the time, I think it was a track rather than a road. It would seem they married in Dafen. That may be where they worshiped and are buried. It is a fair distance from the farm, but I have relatives in the mid 1800s, who travelled similar, with some even further. In Dafen, there are two possible places with graveyards, and more still in Felinfoel.

Also, some children are not accounted for in the Census records. For there to be a Grandson called Walters, it suggests there is a son.
1881 Census: Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
John Walters . Head . M . 73 (Est. 1808) . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire . Farmer (35 Acres)
Sarah Walters . Wife . F . 63 . Pembrey, Carmarthenshire
Elizabeth Walters . Daughter . F . 26 . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
Ann Walters . Daughter . F . 23 . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
Jane Walters . Daughter . F . 20 . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
David Walters . Grand Son . M . 2 . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
RG11 . Piece/Folio: 5375/134 . Page Number: 21

1871 Census: Hengoed, Carmarthenshire
John Walters . Head . M . 63 (Est. 1808) . Carmarthenshire Farmer
Sarah Walters . Wife . F . 55 . Carmarthenshire
Sarah Walters . Daughter . F . 19 . Carmarthenshire
Elizabeth Walters . Daughter . F . 16 . Carmarthenshire
Ann Walters . Daughter . F . 13 . Carmarthenshire
Jane Walters . Daughter . F . 10 . Carmarthenshire
GS Film: 000850841 . Digital Folder: 004020475 . Image: 00182
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1871/5468/0181

From the Census information, I searched the GRO database for births, which gave me Sarah’s surname:
Ann Walters . Morgans 
GRO Reference: 1857 Apr-Jun Llanelly Volume 11a  Page 568
Jane Walters . Morgans 
GRO Reference: 1860  Apr-Jun Llanelly Volume 11a  Page 581
Elizabeth Walters . Morgans 
GRO Reference: 1854 Jul-Sep Llanelly  Volume 11a  Page 480

With the surname Morgan(s), the only marriage recorded is:
Marriage: John Walters . Spouse's Name: Sarah Morgan
11 Nov 1836 . Dafen, Carmarthenshire
Digital Folder Number: 004199672

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 05 November 19 21:11 GMT (UK) »

Also, some children are not accounted for in the Census records. For there to be a Grandson called Walters, it suggests there is a son.


Not necessarily. There's a David Walters with no mother's maiden name (ie illegitimate) b Llanelly Q1 1879. On 1891 there's a David Walters, stepson, with mother Ann (now Thomas) aged 34

Offline Talacharn

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 05 November 19 21:41 GMT (UK) »
I later found John and David on a Census

Probate
WALTERS, Sarah of Pantllidufach Llanelly Carmarthenshire widow died 16 March 1892 Probate Carmarthen 6 September to Elizabeth Walters spinster Effects £65.

At the time, Elizabeth would be around 37 years of age, with potential to marry.

1871 Census: Hengoed, Carmarthenshire
David Walters . Head . M . 23 (Est. 1848) . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire . Lead Smelter
Elizabeth Walters . Wife . F . 23 . Pembrey, Carmarthenshire
GS Film: 000850841 . Digital Folder: 004020475 . Image: 00181
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1871/5468/0180

It would seem there are Walters in the Kidwelly/Pembrey area. It is possible they travelled that distance to worship and he could be buried there. That would be registered in Carmarthen rather than Llanelly.

There is a gravestone at Siloam Baptist Chapel, Kidwelly for John and Elizabeth Walters (1855-1929), with photograph, but I cannot make out the small print. https://billiongraves.com/grave/Elizabeth-Walters/31564949

Offline ehedydd

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Re: John Walters farmer Pant-llydi-fach farm died 1889 where was he buried ?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 09 February 20 18:59 GMT (UK) »
Adulam Chapel Felinfoel was the favoured one for Baptists as it's the oldest in the area.