Looking for marriage of Samuel Chalmers and Margaret Mathew.

[hookleg]

I have purchased the marriage certificate of Ann Chalmers a domestic servant who lived at Burnthills, Cruden and William Arthur, a Farm servant of Cross stone, Ellon dated 1870 (Aberdeenshire). I have info on William's parents and grandparents, but I am stuck on Ann's parents.
By 1870, Ann's father Samuel Chalmers is recorded as dead although her mother Margaret Chalmers appears to be alive. Witnesses at the wedding of Ann and William are Thomas Mathew and Alexander Kidd.
Ann Chalmers was born in the second half of the 1840s and had siblings named Mary, Susan, John Samuel and Margaret according to the 1861 Census for Kilwinning, Ayrshire.
It states that Margaret was born in Glasgow, abt 1831 and is aged 30. If all the children are hers and not from a previous relationship of Samuel Chalmers, she would have been pregnant at around the age of 15.
The age of Samuel is given as 35, born in Ireland and his occupation as 'keeper of iron furnace'. I have 'Googled' Kilwinning and found "Older residents sometimes refer to the Blaclands as the “Ironworks” after the Eglinton Iron Works which once occupied the land".
Any help in tracking either Samuel Chalmers or Margaret Mathew's family  or B,M,D, would be wonderful. Many thanks.

[CaroleW]

Can't see them in 1851 - have you found them?  2 children born Glasgow pre-1851

[CaroleW]

This is Ann's baptism which confirms mmn as Mathew but see the ones below

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBQP-ZR4

Baptism on FS of youngest Margaret b Kilwinning 1860 shows mother as Margaret Deghan??

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYPD-DLN

As does Samuels

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQBZ-NL8

A Thomas Chalmers was baptised 1859 Glasgow but there is a death in Kilwinning in 1860

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQBS-Q9R

[Annette7]

The family you have on 1861 census is the wrong Samuel and Margaret - Ann's marriage certificate does indeed state her father was deceased but he'd previously been a farm servant (not a keeper of furnace).   As already posted, the maiden name of this Margaret was Deghan not Matthew.

Ann Chalmers was indeed the daughter of a Samuel Chalmers and Margaret Matthew but there is no marriage to find.   If you look at the original baptism record on SP it says:

Samuel Chalmers of Greenheads had a child (illegitimate) born by Margaret Matthew and named Ann.  Witnesses Thomas Matthew, senior and Thomas Matthew, junior.

Although listed as boarders in 1871 William and Ann Arthur are living with her grandfather and mother in Cruden:

Thomas Matthew   76  widower  Crofter Farms 5 acres    born Cruden, Aberdeenshire
Margaret Matthew  40  unmarried                                             ditto
Elizabeth Ogston 6    grandchild                                                ditto
William Arthur     23    boarder    Farm Servant               born Aberdeenshire
Ann Arthur  24            wife                                           born Cruden
Margaret Arthur  6      dau.                                                  ditto
James Arthur      1      son                                                    ditto
plus 2 other boarders

Since William and Ann have a 6yr old daughter Margaret (born pre marriage) I checked births and Margaret Chalmers or Arthur was born 22/6/1866 Cruden, dau. of William Arthur and Ann Chalmers.  It is very common for illegitimate children in Scotland to bear the surname of their natural father, as in the case with Ann, even though their parents never married. 

1851 census for Cruden confirms Anne Chalmers 4 as granddaughter to Thomas Matthew and his wife Anne together with their daughter Margaret Matthew 21 and son Thomas Matthew 19.

Margaret Matthew died of Acute Pneumonia on 13/2/1908 Cruden, Pauper (formerly domestic servant), single, dau. of Thomas Matthew, crofter (deceased) and Ann nee Ogston (deceased). Informant John Charles, Inspector of Poor. 

So you've been looking for a marriage that unfortunately never took place.

Annette

[hookleg]

Thanks Carole for your research, but it seems that everyone had jumped on each other's research on Ancestry trees.
I had seen the trees with Deghan/Mathew and this concerned me, particularly as so much of my tree centres around the area of N E Aberdeenshire.
I was prompted to go to the forum as I could not see the connection between Glasgow/Ayr and Aberdeenshire and was wondering about the validity of the research. I had also noticed the fact that Samuel Chalmers was a farm servant, which tied in much more closely with other branches of the tree for this period. Things were just not ringing true. I suppose the fact that Samuel Chalmers, the foundry man, had married a Margaret and had a daughter Ann led to the confusion. It is so easy to be led down wrong paths.
Thanks so much to Annette for solving the mystery and for providing the research to back it up. I am always trying to back up research with records, rather than just relying on other people's family trees. However, like the others, I had gone wrong this time by following the 1861 census for the wrong person.
May I ask which site you used to find the info as it does not appear on Ancestry and perhaps I need to be using a different one which has this detail.
Sincere thanks again.

[Forfarian]

Thanks Carole for your research, but it seems that everyone had jumped on each other's research on Ancestry trees.

That is the main reason why you must never trust anything you find on Ancestry unless it's an image of an original document. And even then be wary because errors can occur.

May I ask which site you used to find the info as it does not appear on Ancestry and perhaps I need to be using a different one which has this detail.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

[hookleg]

Thanks Forfarian, point taken. This is why I purchased certificate from SP and then tried to trace the parents. I was very uneasy about what was on other trees. I have come across numerous mistakes on English Census transcripts. It seems that people deciphering the records have very little knowledge of names of towns and villages in the counties they are transcribing and very often guess at names when they have difficulty with personal names.
I agree, it is always worth trying to get original documents, but I have used credits on SP when it has been difficult to follow a name and have on several occasions followed an expensive wrong lead. Hence my appeal to the expertise of members of this forum. I must say, they are not always correct, but I often manage to get the correct line in the end. I do not always follow info on the other sites you mention, particularly as a great number of trees are poorly researched and on Ancestry there are countless numbers of people who have 'spent their lives criss-crossing the Atlantic to villages with the same name in 2 different continents'!!!

[edwardoscar]

Hi folks, a little late to this thread but I think this might be the same Samuel Chalmers who is causing me a headache to solve.

My x2 gt grandfather John Chalmers was illegitimate, born to Marjory Laird and Samuel Chalmers in Aberdour, Aberdeenshire (1843). We’re at a total standstill as to who this Samuel is, he appears to avoid all census records. And no record of a Samuel born in the area that I can  find.

I do know that other Chalmers in New Aberdour were connected to our Chalmers, as my grandmother would visit them as ‘cousins’ (although what degree of cousin I don’t know).

I first thought Samuel may have been from that same Chalmers in Aberdour but not finding anything.

The chances of this being the same Samuel who is the father of Ann while at another farm in the north-east three years later are possible, I think as farm labourers did move farms at ‘feeing time’

If you do (or have) find any other info about Samuel you mention, please do let me know.

Best wishes
B

[GR2]

From the minutes of Aberdour kirk session 3rd September 1843:

Compeared Marjory Laird in Ardlawhill
and declared herself with child, and ac-
cused as the Father Samuel Chalmers, pre-
sently farm servant with Mr. Paul, Longhaven,
parish of Cruden. The Clerk was instructed
to write to the Session Clerk of Cruden requesting
him to cause the Kirk Officer there summon
the said Samuel Chalmers to appear here next Sunday.

There is no entry for the following Sunday and does not seem to be any later mention of the case.

"Mr. Paul" is the farmer George Paul. In the 1851 census the farm of Longhaven is given as 150 acres.

Samuel is not a very common name in the north east. However, because the schoolmaster of Aberdour for many years was called Samuel Craik, a considerable number of boys born in the parish were called Samuel.