Finding John Anderson - Edinburgh to Belfast via Carrickfergus

[tonythurston]

I am stuck trying to find the right John Anderson who married Ellen Lockhart (abt 1844)(1923-1900) in Carrickfergus (unproven) and lived in Belfast (proven). They raised a family including Agnes Kennedy Richardson (Nee Anderson)(1866-1945), William John Anderson (1845-1881), Samuel H Anderson (1851-1917) and David Anderson (1858-1936). From Agnes's baptism in Carrickfergus her parents are John Anderson and Ellen Lockhart - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03533/2300407.pdf

Ellen died in 1900 in Belfast a widower. John was alive in 1890 living in Braemar St, Belfast. John apparently served in the Lockhart household and Ellen's parents thought she married beneath her status. I am stuck tracing back from Northern Ireland to Scotland. Many thanks for any insights and advice you can kindly offer

[mattfrombann]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/21293179/person/432119118801/facts?_phsrc=ivF847&_phstart=successSource

A small family tree for John and Ellen is on Ancestry. Author is a Paul Thurston. You may or may not be aware of this. It has John dying in Infirmary 1900 and a "Probable" year of marriage 1844 in Carrickfergus. What is the Edinburgh link you hint at ?

Matt

[aghadowey]

Ellen was the widow (not widower) of John Anderson when she died in 1900- informant was daughter Agnes Richardson also 4 Klondyke St.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05747/4623006.pdf

Unfortunately, registration of non-Catholic marriages started 1845 (and Catholic ones 1864) so if they married 1844 or earlier there will be no civil record and that means searching for a church entry. What churches in Larne (or other places) have you already checked?

This link you posted for Agnes is her birth registration not a baptism-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03533/2300407.pdf

Agnes Anderson married (1892) Thomas Richardson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10639/5876320.pdf

[tonythurston]

Hi Matt

Its actually my cousin's tree but I now operate it. This week I discovered John Anderson was buried by his son Samuel after heart failure whilst at the infirmary. I have tried to contact the infirmary for confirmation. In the same year Samuel buried his mother in Belfast city cementry close to John. I checked with a living ancestor that it was Samuel's handwriting - it is. This is a big step forward for me. I now have to contemplate a younger John, born in Edinburgh. The same ancestor points to a serving man born in Edinburgh. Samuel had a very strong military career in India. (59th foot, became east Lancs Regiment #1488). Samuel was born in Carrickfergus

aghadowey

Please let me know what information you would like - I do not keep death, burial records and wills in ancestry but I have them if this helps you

I have tried the Carrickfergus Church of Ireland without reply. I am checking at the infirmary. PRONI also did a search for me and found a number of John and Ellen's baptisms (John William born 20 Feb 1845) but not the marriage or Ellen's birth unfortunately. The ancestor's presumption was that Ellen was born and married in Carrickfergus


Thank you both very much for replying to me, its much appreciated

[mattfrombann]

Tony

I live in Edinburgh and am very familiar with Scottish Records. What are your ancestors known details and what do you want to know? Was the birth pre 1855? If so, do you know religion ?

Matt

[tonythurston]

Hi Matt

If John was 69 and died 19 feb 1900 then born 1830-31. If John William is the eldest son born 1845 then John could have been born earlier to be 18 in 1845 when married then born 1826-27. Ellen died 1900 aged 77 therefore born 1822-23, presumed born Carrickfergus

Literally all I have regarding the Scottish birth from an ancestor is:

"Early 1800s Ellen Lockhart married John Anderson and moved to Belfast. He was said to have been a “serving" man (originally from Edinburgh) in her parental home in Carrickfergus"

"Serving" could mean military or farm labourer. The ancestor prefers agricultural labourer perhaps working in the Lockhart household but given Samuel and David's military background I am not so sure. I do not rule out John could have been on the British Merchant seaman's register but there were many John's born in Scotland or Ireland (national archives). The only other clue was the name Craig in John's family and Samuel's middle name Hamilton and James's middle name Kennedy. Children in the following order: William John, Margaret, Matilda, Samuel, Robert, James, David and Agnes (Kennedy again). No detail on John's siblings

Thank you very much 

[tonythurston]

To answer your question - non-Catholic; Church of Ireland

[mattfrombann]

Some research suggestions while I ponder your puzzle.

The master index to Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland would suggest it beneficial to consult Antrim Vol 37 containing references to a Lockhart family (P37) and a Robert Lockhart (P 40 and 175) both Carrickfergus. These memoirs were compiled in 1830s so it is possible (but by no means certain) that these are connected to Ellen's parents. I happen to know Woodburn, as one of my late uncle's lived there and I visited with my parents quite often. I don't have a copy of that particular volume but you should be able to order a copy online from the usual sources.
The Tithe Applotment books and Griffith's valuation may show up Lockharts in the area and give you the all important Townland. Then if you're really really keen (and lucky) you might find your Lockharts in the Register of Deeds for Ireland. This is available online via FamilySearch (LDS) website and a free account, but exploring it is an extremely tedious business of which an explanation too long for this message. There were no less than 8 estates covering Carrickfergus Parish- Brice, Brytt, Dalway, Donegal, Kirk, Macartney, Saunders and Vesey, so you just might find a lease from one of them to a Lockhart (and I stress, it's a big might and only if they weren't sub tenants).

Have fun

Matt

[tonythurston]

Thank you Matt

Book purchased. Thank you for your excellent suggestions.

From the 1851 census James Lockhart, is the father of Ellen, married to Eliza, living in the parish of Carrickfergus, townland of Middle Division. James died 1879 and his will mentions Ellen as his daughter - https://apps.proni.gov.uk/willscalendar_ie/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=176485

The Griffith's valuations in 1861 put James and other lockharts in Middle Division - http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/griffiths-valuation/parish-of-carrickfergus.php

Another record points to the Lockhart's including James leasing land from the Marquis of Downshire - dont know if or how that fits with the estates you kindly mention

Sadly no other mention of Ellen

Seperately, I expected the Lockhart's of Carrickfergus to originally come from Donegal and I hope the book helps in this regards - but that's another step!

Thank you very much