Author Topic: John Fleming BRICK WALL.  (Read 1062 times)

Offline kjmck

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« on: Wednesday 13 November 19 13:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Looking for any information on the above John Fleming.

1841 - aged 30. Living at Old Vennel in Glasgow College parish, occupation Carter. Birthplace given as Lanarkshire  ???

According to the 1851 census he was born in Rennyloanhead around 1801. He was living at 45 Shuttle Street, in Glasgow and was a Carter.

He died in Glasgow between 1851 and his daughter's marriage in 1856.

He is a complete anomaly to me and one of my dreaded brick walls.

Keelan

Offline jcmac

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 13:54 GMT (UK) »
Could it be Dennyloanhead ?

Offline kjmck

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 13:58 GMT (UK) »
Dennyloanhead yes probably, which I think is in the Falkirk district?



Offline kjmck

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 16:03 GMT (UK) »
The census returns that I have don't match for John Fleming. According to the marriage record of his daughter Mary to Daniel McCormick in 1856 in Glasgow, her parents are John Fleming (Carter/Deceased) & Elizabeth Wiseman/Osman. Mary was born c.1834 and died in 1895.

The 1841 census I have found for John fleming -

John Fleming, 30 (about 1811), Born, Lanarkshire, Occ. Carter, Address - Old Vennal.
Elizabeth Fleming, 30 (about 1811), Born, Scotland.
N K (Male), 20, Born, Scotland, Occ. Carter.

I cannot find a definite 1851 census for John Fleming & family. I only know his daughter Mary married in 1856, that there was a witness - Agnes Fleming. Mary had a daughter called Agnes, so I guess the connection to Agnes Fleming maybe that of a sister.

1851 Census (Only one I can find)

John Fleming, 1801, Rennyloanhead, Carter, 45 Shuttle Street.
Mary Fleming, 1807, Montrose Elizabeth?
Nancy Fleming, 1833, Glasgow, Flax Spinner Agnes??
Mary Fleming, 1835, Glasgow, Flax Spinner
John Fleming, 1840, Glasgow, Callenderer's Apprentice

Elizabeth Fleming in -
1861 - born, 1806, Montrose, Forfarshire.
1871 - born, 1808, Montford, Forfar.
Dies in 1877 aged 69, Widow of John Fleming.
So it matches with the info given for 'Mary' in 1851.

I have also found an alternate 1841 census for John Fleming.

John Fleming, 1801, born Lanarkshire, Occ. Carter, Address - 4 G Dow Hill, Glasgow St John's.
Mary Fleming, 1806, born Scotland.
Jean Fleming, 1841, born Lanarkshire.

I don't know if i'm in the wrong County here, or if there is some sort of crossover if the John Fleming with Elizabeth in 1841 and the John Fleming with Mary in 1841 is the same man. I can't find a marriage for John & Elizabeth. ??? ???

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 11,638
  • Never trust anything you find online .....
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 17:23 GMT (UK) »
Dennyloanhead yes probably, which I think is in the Falkirk district?
Historically, it is in the county of Stirling and parish of Denny, so that's where you need to look.

'Falkirk District' is a late 20th century invention which did not exist in the time of your John Fleming.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline jcmac

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 17:46 GMT (UK) »
Where did Mary Fleming or McCormick [email protected] die in 1895 ? Is the spelling correct ?

Offline MaureeninNY

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,939
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 18:25 GMT (UK) »
The 1841 with Jean FLEMING as a daughter is possibly:

MOTHERWELL Mary and FLEMING John married 19/07/1829 Glasgow

Jean Glen FLEMING-reg 05/03/1841 Glasgow






Offline kjmck

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 19:10 GMT (UK) »
Where did Mary Fleming or McCormick [email protected] die in 1895 ? Is the spelling correct ?

Mary McCormack (variation in spelling) died 22/04/1895 at 518 Rutherglen Road, Hutchesontown, Glagow aged 58. Parents listed as John Fleming (Carter/Deceased) & Margaret Osmond (Deceased). Her son, Daniel McCormack registered the death.

Offline kjmck

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Fleming BRICK WALL.
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 13 November 19 19:20 GMT (UK) »
The 1841 with Jean FLEMING as a daughter is possibly:

MOTHERWELL Mary and FLEMING John married 19/07/1829 Glasgow

Jean Glen FLEMING-reg 05/03/1841 Glasgow

The marriage record reads - 'John Fleming. Victualler in Glasgow, & Mary Motherwell, residing there'.

Births for children to John & Mary.

FLEMING MARY - JOHN FLEMING/MARY MOTHERWELL FR4715 (FR4715)
08/07/1834
Glasgow
'John Fleming. A Carter. & Mary Motherwell, a Law' Daur' Mary. Wit' John Anderson & John Patterson

FLEMING MARY - JOHN FLEMING/MARY MOTHERWELL FR5679 (FR5679)
26/02/1844
Glasgow

FLEMING ANDREW - JOHN FLEMING/MARY MATHERWELL FR4869 (FR4869)
15/11/1835
Glasgow

FLEMING JEAN GLEN - JOHN FLEMING/MARY MOTHERWELL FR5424 (FR5424)
05/03/1841
Glasgow

Can't find the Agnes Fleming born c.1832/33 or John Fleming born c.1840/41 in the 1851 census I mentioned before.