Gardiner, Scamp and Ayres - Essex, Kent and Surrey England

[Dundee]

A brother for Mary Ann:

AYRES, HENRY  GARDNER
No mother's maiden name
GRO Reference: 1863  D Quarter in GUILDFORD  Volume 02A  Page 45

Henry Gardner AYRES
Birth Date:    3 Nov 1863
Baptism Date:    2 Jan 1864
Baptism Place:    Ripley, St Mary, Surrey, England
Mother    Olive AYRES
BB son (base born)
Olive an itinerant hawker of no fixed abode so probably a gypsy traveller.

She is most likely the daughter of Henry and Olive AYRES who were in Bury, Sussex in 1851. Father Henry is also a hawker.  In 1871 he is a travelling hawker and showman in Surrey.  Mary Ann is with them aged 8.

(1851) Piece: 1653; Folio: 30; Page: 32

(1871) Piece: 836; Folio: 98; Page: 46

Olive jnr. is said to be born in Hampshire, but she was baptised at Hever, Kent in 1842 (indexed as Oliph AYERS on Ancestry).

Debra 

[Mitche11]

A brother for Mary Ann:

AYRES, HENRY  GARDNER
No mother's maiden name
GRO Reference: 1863  D Quarter in GUILDFORD  Volume 02A  Page 45

Henry Gardner AYRES
Birth Date:    3 Nov 1863
Baptism Date:    2 Jan 1864
Baptism Place:    Ripley, St Mary, Surrey, England
Mother    Olive AYRES
BB son (base born)
Olive an itinerant hawker of no fixed abode so probably a gypsy traveller.

She is most likely the daughter of Henry and Olive AYRES who were in Bury, Sussex in 1851. Father Henry is also a hawker.  In 1871 he is a travelling hawker and showman in Surrey.  Mary Ann is with them aged 8.

(1851) Piece: 1653; Folio: 30; Page: 32

(1871) Piece: 836; Folio: 98; Page: 46

Olive jnr. is said to be born in Hampshire, but she was baptised at Hever, Kent in 1842 (indexed as Oliph AYERS on Ancestry).

Debra 

Hi Debra,

I also found Henry Gardner Ayres born 1863 but have no evidence that he is the son of William Henry Gardener and Olive Ayres.

I did find a death record for an Olive Ayres b. 1843 d. 1892 Guildford, Surrey. It does seem a coincidence that Henry Gardner Ayres was born in Guildford but I still have no evidence that she is the Olive Ayres I am looking for

In 1871 you say Mary Ann Gardener is with Henry and Olive Ayres. Is Mary Ann listed as their granddaughter and is she also with her mother Olive as I cannot find the record? I have Mary Ann Gardener's birth certificate and she was born 28 Sept 1862, so Henry Gardener Ayres could be Mary Ann's brother.

I do believe that William and Olive never married. I found William on the 1871 Census living in Buckingham Street Tent, Northfleet, Kent, marital status - widow, he is also living with Emily Gardner - daughter, Leonard Gardner - son and Samuel Ayres - Visitor. I have not found any birth records for Emily or Leonard so I do not know if their mother is Olive Ayres. William Henry Gardener later married Cinnamenta Scamp.

[Darnity]

I believe Cinnaminta's maiden name is Scamp and is William Henry Gardiner's wife but I do not believe she is Mary Ann Gardiner's mother.

Doesn't help with Mary Ann Gardiner's mother but Roger Baker in The Family Tree of Samson and Celia SCAMP shows Cinimenta partnering William H Gardiner (bp Prittlewell Essex 12/12/1843 s/o Thomas and Mary) and they having Samuel Gardiner b Crockenhill c1872, Maria Gardiner b Bexleyheath c1874, Clifford Gardiner b Northfleet c1877 and Silvester Gardiner b Northfleet c1879

Cinimenta (bp Temple Ewell 28/11/1847) is shown as the daughter of Riley SCAMP (bp Temple Ewell 26/3/1820 s/o John and Grace br Ramsgate 28/2/1899) and Sarah LEE/MATTHEWS (b Sussex c1825 br Ramsgate 17/11/1899)

Cinimenta is shown as having an older brother Oliver and older sister Charlotte and younger siblings  Riley, William, Samson, Clarinda, George, Mary, Mizella and Sydney.

Which appears to agree with your thought that Cinnaminta not is Mary Ann Gardiner's mother.

[Mitche11]

Thank you Darnity, I have all the information I need on Cinnaminta Scamp and her family on my tree. The brick wall I am now at is with Mary Ann Gardener, Olive Ayres and William Henry Gardener.

[Mitche11]

I have found more information on William Henry Gardiner but have hit a brick wall again 

William Henry Gardiner had 4 children with Olive Ayres:-

Mary Ann Gardener born 28 Sept 1862 in Manor Way, Northfleet, Kent.
Henry Gardner Ayres born 3 Nov 1863 in Send and Ripley, Surrey.
Emily Gardiner born abt. 1865 - cannot find any birth or baptism record.
Leonard Gardiner born abt. 1867 - cannot find any birth or baptism record.

William Henry Gardiner married Cinnaminta Scamp on 18 Aug 1882 in Lamorbey, Kent. On their Marriage Banns William's father is Thomas Gardiner, occupation is Labourer.

William and Cinnaminta had 6 children:-
Samuel Gardiner born abt. 1873 in Kent.
Maria Gardiner born abt. 1875 in Kent.
Clifford Gardiner born abt. 1878 in Kent.
Sylvester Gardiner born abt. 1880 in Surrey.
Mary Gardiner born abt. 1883 in Kent.
Sydney Gardiner born abt. 1892 in Kent.

There maybe more children as there is a 9 year gap between Mary and Sydney but I have been unable to find any.

Thomas Gardiner (William's father) married Mary Ann Riley October 1841 in Rochford, Essex. On their marriage Banns his father is Amos Lee and occupation is Brazier.

I believe Thomas Gardiner's mother is Mary Ann ? surname not known.

Thomas Gardiner was baptised Thomas Lee on 15 July 1821 in Playden, Sussex but when he married Mary Ann Riley his surname was Gardiner.

I believe Amos Lee and Mary Ann ? also had 3 more children.
Philimore Lee baptised 21 May 1826 in Warehorne, Kent.
Noah Lee baptised 10 May 1829 in Barming, Kent.
Flora Lee baptised 22 March 1835 in Rayleigh, Essex.
I cannot find them on any Census Records.

I have found Marriage Banns for:
Philimore/Finimore Lee married Mary Ann Cook 17 August 1882 in Eltham, Kent. Father is Amos Lee, occupation: Brazier.
Noah/Noel Lee married Maria Lee 23 Feb 1862 in Hammersmith, Middlesex. Father Amos Lee, occupation: Hawker.
Flora Lee married John Day 24 Oct 1859 in Frant, Sussex. Father is Amos Lee, occupation: Labourer. Flora's surname changed from Lee to Gardiner on her Marriage Banns the same as her brother Thomas changed from Lee to Gardiner.

I cannot find why Thomas and Flora's surname changed to Gardiner on their Marriage Banns when they were both born with the surname Lee, also they were the only siblings to change their surname.

Any help will be very much appreciated.

[Lookingforclues]

Hello,

Thomas Lee bp. 1821 was the son of Amos Lee and Mary Ann, one assumes Gardiner. Thomas himself and a number of his siblings used both Lee and Gardiner surnames throughout their lives.

Thomas married Mary Ann Riley in 1841 herself being the daughter of unmarried parents John Riley and Mary Whale.

Thomas and Mary had William Henry Gardiner bp. 1843 and Emily Gardiner bp. 1845

Thomas then leaves Mary or Mary Thomas, with him partnering with Eunice Lee the daughter of Henry Lee and Ruth Powell who baptise their first child in 1849.

Mary partners with David / Henry Lee bp. 1821 the son of Joshua and Joanna, and it is these with whom William Henry is living with in 1861 along with his sister Emily.

Emily Gardiner married James Dunk in 1867.

I assume the Mary Ann Lee buried 8 SEP 1872 at Strood, Mary Lee aged 51 Medway September Q 1872 was William Henry Gardiner's mother since in 1879 his father Thomas married Eunice at Beckenham stating he was a widower.

William Henry Gardiner baptised his daughter Emily in 1865 Plaxtol, Kent and son Leonard in 1867 with his partner Lydia.

Lydia died December Qtr 1870 North Aylesford and was buried at Northfleet in 1870.


It's curious that the Mary Ann Gardener who married Andrew Lowder in 1885 had a joint marriage with Matilda Lee and Jacob Marshall who witnessed Mary and Andrews marriage.

What was the profession of father and informant of Mary Ann Gardener born in 1862?

Olive Ayers daughter of Henry Ayres and Olive James bp. 1842 was living with her sister Mary in 1871 whose daughter Jane Collison married a Thomas Lee in Bromley September Qtr 1911.

In 1891 Olive is living as a patient in Brookwood lunatic asylum and it's likely the same person who died March Qtr 1892 Guildford.

I wonder if it's possible that William Henry partnered with Olive and had Mary Ann and perhaps Henry, then with Lydia and had Emily and Leonard and then another family with Cinnamenta?