Author Topic: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child  (Read 1002 times)

Offline Bartonin NZ

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Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« on: Friday 15 November 19 09:47 GMT (UK) »
I have two birth registrations that have confused me and would like another opinion please.

Birth Reg 1/  District Cheshunt, Edmonton    3A/188
13 Dec 1864    Charles William Pearson Cockle to John and Annie (formerly Barker) Cockle
Born at Hatton Road.              Registered 16 Jan 1865.

Birth Reg 2/  District All Souls,  Marylebone    1A/415
25 Mar 1865    Charles William Pearson Cockle to Elizabeth Cockle.
MA Rhodes present at the birth at 45 Newmans St, Marylebone.   Reg 23 Sept 1865  (6mths after birth)

Then Elizabeth Cockle married a William Charles Pearson at St James Westminster 19 Jan 1870. 

1871 Census William and Elizabeth and 6 year old Charles W live on the London Rd Sussex.

Charles William Pearson never appears again with John and Annie Cockle.

John Cockle and Elizabeth Cockle are siblings.

Did Annie give birth and then Elizabeth adopt the baby?  If so how did MA Rhodes witness the birth at 45 Newmans St?  Or maybe another explanation lurks around the corner....

Offline Craclyn

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #1 on: Friday 15 November 19 10:42 GMT (UK) »
Order the two certificates from the GRO to get clarification.
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #2 on: Friday 15 November 19 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Order the two certificates from the GRO to get clarification.

The information given appears to have come from the birth certificates
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Offline Bartonin NZ

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #3 on: Friday 15 November 19 10:48 GMT (UK) »
Correct. I Have both PDFs from GRO.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #4 on: Friday 15 November 19 11:01 GMT (UK) »

Birth Reg 2/  District All Souls,  Marylebone    1A/415
25 Mar 1865    Charles William Pearson Cockle to Elizabeth Cockle.
MA Rhodes present at the birth at 45 Newmans St, Marylebone.   Reg 23 Sept 1865  (6mths after birth)


Is 45 Newmans Street entered as place of birth or address of informant
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Offline Bartonin NZ

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #5 on: Friday 15 November 19 11:04 GMT (UK) »
Address of birth and where the informant MA Rhodes was present at the birth.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #6 on: Friday 15 November 19 14:10 GMT (UK) »
The use of Pearson as a forename, and Elizabeth's later marriage to William Charles Pearson, might suggest that Elizabeth was the mother, but that initially her brother registered the birth as if one of his own. But I don't know how you'd prove this.

I note that the 1871 census shows Charles as born in Cheshunt, which was in the Edmonton district, and that Elizabeth was born there too.

However, a few more questions might help...

Who was the informant for the Jan 1865 (Edmonton) registration?

Do you have a baptism for Charles, which might give useful information?

Are there any later records with Charles's date of birth, eg school admissions registers, 1939 register?

Did John and Annie have any children, and if so, would any pregnancies exclude Annie from giving birth to Charles in Dec 1864?

Any idea who MA Rhodes was (from censuses etc)?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

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Offline avm228

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #7 on: Friday 15 November 19 14:14 GMT (UK) »
Mary Ann Rhodes is at 45 Newman St, Marylebone, in 1861 (no occupation). She is the 40yr old wife of William Rhodes, a cabinet maker. They are one of three households at the address. Ref is RG9/66/48/20.

Still at the address in 1871: RG10/148/55/40.

Perhaps she was prepared for a bob or two to say she had been present at a fictitious birth?

For what it's worth I'd think the most likely explanation - in light of the child's given names - is that he was the biological son of Elizabeth and William, falsely registered as a child of John & Annie in the first instance for respectability's sake.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline polarbear

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Re: Two birth registrations for what appears to be same child
« Reply #8 on: Friday 15 November 19 14:54 GMT (UK) »
This looks like a baptism....

Charles William Pearson
Born 25 March 1865
Bapt 26 Nov 1873
Father William Charles Pearson
Mother Elizabeth
St James Westminster London (where the couple were apparently married)

PB

Added: transcription from FHL film 1042313 on "Anc", no image apparently available

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