John Newton & Elizabeth ?? (Spencer)

[davidwgrobinson]

Hi,

 I'm struggling to confirm the identity of the wife to John Newton (1837-1905)

 He was born in Whitwell in 1837

 His wife on the Census' is Elizabeth and she claims the same year of Birth and Place of Birth.

 I have a Civil Registration Index for 1855 which has John Newton and an Elizabeth Spencer.

 For the 1861 and 1871 Census they are in Whitwell

 For the 1881, 1891 and 1901 Census they were in Clowne and I have his burial as 1905 in Clowne.

 Elizabeth I believe died in 1911, but there are no church burial records for Clowne after 1909.

 I can't find any Elizabeth Spencer in the 1841 or 1851 census in Whitwell.  I've had a look in the Church Marriage records for the churches listed in the Marriage index's district and have come up with nothing.

 Would it be possible for me to get the marriage certificate from that far back with any relevant information.

 Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 David

 

 

[philipsearching]

The 1855 marriage is (according to FreeBMD):
4Jun qtr 1855 Derby vol 7b p616 NEWTON John, same page as FORD Fanny, NEAL James, SPENCER Elizabeth.

The civil registration certificate should name the fathers and their occupations.  The cheapest website to order from is the General Register Office (GRO) website:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

If you find the couple with children on later censuses you can search the children's births on the GRO website - these will give the mother's maiden name.

Philip


ADDED
FamilySearch has a family on the 1861 Census RG09/2227/83 p39:
John NEWTON 24, head, Cordwainer Journeyman, born Whitwell
Elizabeth, wife, 23, born Whitwell
Lucy, 0, born Chesterfield

This leads to a birth on the GRO index:
NEWTON Lucy - Sep qtr 1860 Chesterfield Union vol 7b p487 - mother's maiden name RICHARDSON.

So - is there a John NEWTON/Elizabeth RICHARDSON marriage not yet found?
Or did Elizabeth RICHARDSON marry a Mr SPENCER, then marry John NEWTON?
Or were the couple not actually married?

This is getting interesting!  I think it's worth doing some more digging before spending on certificates - just to clarify matters.


AND ANOTHER ADDITION
The only JN to ER marriage within a reasonable time frame found on FreeBMD seems to be :
Dec qtr 1858 Sheffield vol 9c p356 - NEWTON John, same page as DEARMAN Henry, HOYLAND Catharine, RICHARDSON Elizabeth

Sheffield is under 20 miles from Whitwell (according to the AA Route Planner) so it could be a possibility.

[davidwgrobinson]

thanks for that Philip,

 I never thought of looking through the Children (despite just doing that for a different branch).  I will start to look through that tomorrow.

 Sheffield is certainly more realistic than Derby for a local marriage (the both born and raised in Whitwell was causing me issues for looking to far away)

 Most Whitwill registrations are Worksop or Chesterfield,  I will have a quick look now, much preferable to buying at the moment.

 David

The 1855 marriage is (according to FreeBMD):
4Jun qtr 1855 Derby vol 7b p616 NEWTON John, same page as FORD Fanny, NEAL James, SPENCER Elizabeth.

The civil registration certificate should name the fathers and their occupations.  The cheapest website to order from is the General Register Office (GRO) website:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

If you find the couple with children on later censuses you can search the children's births on the GRO website - these will give the mother's maiden name.

Philip


ADDED
FamilySearch has a family on the 1861 Census RG09/2227/83 p39:
John NEWTON 24, head, Cordwainer Journeyman, born Whitwell
Elizabeth, wife, 23, born Whitwell
Lucy, 0, born Chesterfield

This leads to a birth on the GRO index:
NEWTON Lucy - Sep qtr 1860 Chesterfield Union vol 7b p487 - mother's maiden name RICHARDSON.

So - is there a John NEWTON/Elizabeth RICHARDSON marriage not yet found?
Or did Elizabeth RICHARDSON marry a Mr SPENCER, then marry John NEWTON?
Or were the couple not actually married?

This is getting interesting!  I think it's worth doing some more digging before spending on certificates - just to clarify matters.


AND ANOTHER ADDITION
The only JN to ER marriage within a reasonable time frame found on FreeBMD seems to be :
Dec qtr 1858 Sheffield vol 9c p356 - NEWTON John, same page as DEARMAN Henry, HOYLAND Catharine, RICHARDSON Elizabeth

Sheffield is under 20 miles from Whitwell (according to the AA Route Planner) so it could be a possibility.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Elizabeth Richardson
Baptism    29 Oct 1837,   Whitwell, Derbyshire

Parents Thomas (labourer) and Sarah

1841 - Whitwell

Thomas Richardson    40 - ag lab
Sarah Richardson    40
George Richardson    10
Thomas Richardson    7
Sarah Richardson    6
Elizabeth Richardson    3
Lucy Richardson    6 Mo

1851 - whitwell.  all born here except where stated
    
Thomas Richardson    54  - labourer b Clowne
Sarah Richardson    52 - b Barlbro
Elisabeth Richardson    13
Lucy Richardson    10
Emma Richardson    7
Charles Richardson    7

HO107; 2122; 525; 20;

[davidwgrobinson]

I've just looked up another child and all I can see is the name and the District, volume and page on FreeBMD, how do you get the mothers maiden name on this?

The 1855 marriage is (according to FreeBMD):
4Jun qtr 1855 Derby vol 7b p616 NEWTON John, same page as FORD Fanny, NEAL James, SPENCER Elizabeth.

The civil registration certificate should name the fathers and their occupations.  The cheapest website to order from is the General Register Office (GRO) website:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

If you find the couple with children on later censuses you can search the children's births on the GRO website - these will give the mother's maiden name.

Philip


ADDED
FamilySearch has a family on the 1861 Census RG09/2227/83 p39:
John NEWTON 24, head, Cordwainer Journeyman, born Whitwell
Elizabeth, wife, 23, born Whitwell
Lucy, 0, born Chesterfield

This leads to a birth on the GRO index:
NEWTON Lucy - Sep qtr 1860 Chesterfield Union vol 7b p487 - mother's maiden name RICHARDSON.

So - is there a John NEWTON/Elizabeth RICHARDSON marriage not yet found?
Or did Elizabeth RICHARDSON marry a Mr SPENCER, then marry John NEWTON?
Or were the couple not actually married?

This is getting interesting!  I think it's worth doing some more digging before spending on certificates - just to clarify matters.


AND ANOTHER ADDITION
The only JN to ER marriage within a reasonable time frame found on FreeBMD seems to be :
Dec qtr 1858 Sheffield vol 9c p356 - NEWTON John, same page as DEARMAN Henry, HOYLAND Catharine, RICHARDSON Elizabeth

Sheffield is under 20 miles from Whitwell (according to the AA Route Planner) so it could be a possibility.

[davidwgrobinson]

Thanks Mabel,

 That helps a lot, I'll start checking the churches as well see if I can find the marriage certificate.

 David

 

Elizabeth Richardson
Baptism    29 Oct 1837,   Whitwell, Derbyshire

Parents Thomas (labourer) and Sarah

1841 - Whitwell

Thomas Richardson    40 - ag lab
Sarah Richardson    40
George Richardson    10
Thomas Richardson    7
Sarah Richardson    6
Elizabeth Richardson    3
Lucy Richardson    6 Mo

1851 - whitwell.  all born here except where stated
    
Thomas Richardson    54  - labourer b Clowne
Sarah Richardson    52 - b Barlbro
Elisabeth Richardson    13
Lucy Richardson    10
Emma Richardson    7
Charles Richardson    7

HO107; 2122; 525; 20;

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I've just looked up another child and all I can see is the name and the District, volume and page on FreeBMD, how do you get the mothers maiden name on this?

The GRO site lists mother's maiden name

Added - the two girls on 1871 have mmn "RITCHARDSON"

[davidwgrobinson]

All the children are registered in the Worksop District under Richardson.

 Thanks very much, for the push.  although I didn't use the GRO site before, I must have stumbled across a similar service.

 Thanks Philip

The 1855 marriage is (according to FreeBMD):
4Jun qtr 1855 Derby vol 7b p616 NEWTON John, same page as FORD Fanny, NEAL James, SPENCER Elizabeth.

The civil registration certificate should name the fathers and their occupations.  The cheapest website to order from is the General Register Office (GRO) website:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

If you find the couple with children on later censuses you can search the children's births on the GRO website - these will give the mother's maiden name.

Philip


ADDED
FamilySearch has a family on the 1861 Census RG09/2227/83 p39:
John NEWTON 24, head, Cordwainer Journeyman, born Whitwell
Elizabeth, wife, 23, born Whitwell
Lucy, 0, born Chesterfield

This leads to a birth on the GRO index:
NEWTON Lucy - Sep qtr 1860 Chesterfield Union vol 7b p487 - mother's maiden name RICHARDSON.

So - is there a John NEWTON/Elizabeth RICHARDSON marriage not yet found?
Or did Elizabeth RICHARDSON marry a Mr SPENCER, then marry John NEWTON?
Or were the couple not actually married?

This is getting interesting!  I think it's worth doing some more digging before spending on certificates - just to clarify matters.


/quote]

[davidwgrobinson]

Thanks for the help,

 It's almost certainly Elizabeth Richardson, I'll get on that. Once again the people are awesome,

 Thanks Philip and Mabel

 One last thing, Spencer would have been more interesting   As both my partner and step family have a Spencer at a similar ancestor level

 David