Help Needed Understanding British Subjects (born France)

[TheScoop]

Can anyone enlighten me on the full ramifications of the above. I've spent many months on and off searching for details on my 3rd GGM’s beginnings!

Give or take a year she was born circa 1827. This side of my family hail from Scotland, mainly Aberdeen. She first appears on statutory records, and thereafter, as being a British Subject born in France. Quite a mystery. As others have pointed out on this site, there was no war with France at that point. Her father, if indeed he was her father, was a carpet weaver as was her GF. Fairly humble professions which begs the question what might the father have been doing in France! Her supposed brother was 2 years older, born Aberdeen. Mother is elusive to date. Might she have been French?

Is it correct that only if the Father was British, could the child be registered as Brit subj? Also would this include Scotland? There is no listing for her that specifies which area of France; I have trawled the records of Brit Citizens born abroad during those years for France. Nothing comes close to matching a female birth that would make sense.

Be most grateful for any input

Thank you

Nikki

[Annie65115]

There were some British textileworkers living and working in Calais in the mid1800s. Most were apparently from Nottiinghamshire and worked in the lacemaking industry, but I have come across instances of other textile workers living there.

My 5gtgrandmother's sister, who was married to a lacehand in Leicester, lived in Calais and had children there in the late 1820s. twenty years later the family was living in Leicester again,but her husband was suspected of being involved in a vote-for-cash scandal in the eletions. When the court asked his whereabouts, they were told that he had gone back to Calais (again).

I know you say your family was Scottish but maybe there were associated opportunities in Calais for this trade --- did fancy carpets have lace edging maybe??

This will give you more info:
https://www.historytoday.com/calais-1816-2016

[KGarrad]

In those days, a wife and any children automatically took their nationality from their father.

I don't think that changed until WW1?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_nationality_law
In which it says:
 the British Nationality Act 1772 (13 Geo. 3 c. 21), made general provision allowing natural-born allegiance (citizenship) to be assumed if the father alone were British.

[chempat]

Welcome to rootschat, Nikki.

What further information about her and her family is on her marriage and death certificates?

[trish1120]

Is this her in 1851?

William Gordon   24
Susan Gordon   24 born France British Subj**
Alexander Smith 68 Carpet Weaver
Alexander Smith 27
John Kelly   5
Jane Gordon   1
Alexander Gordon 15

If I have the right one 1881 she is born c 1831 Ghent, Belgium
Other Census's in Glasgow

Trish

[chempat]

Do you think her father and grandfather were 'just' carpet weavers, or were prepared, and had money or sponsorship, to travel to Ghent to learn further techniques there?

Investigate the tapestry weavers of Belgium?

[TheScoop]

Thanks all for your input. A lot of food for thought and I will be onto researching some the suggestions here.

Regards Nottingham area and the lacemaking - I think there is no connection. However, as a general thing, I was not aware of textile workers in Calais at that time. It meant workers did travel backwards and forwards in those days.

I need to collate a bit more of my info before being able to answer some of the questions you raise - which I will get onto and post here. Certificates I've got, prior to 1850s are sketchy and I'm working with very common names which doesn't help!

Trish - your suggestion comes very close to my family line (perhaps we are researching the same family!). I will look at that more closely, though, as you point out, Ghent is in Belgium.

Nikki

[chempat]

Trish - your suggestion comes very close to my family line (perhaps we are researching the same family!). I will look at that more closely, though, as you point out, Ghent is in Belgium.

I think that Trish was looking up your family, or what she hoped was your family - if that census is not them, could you tell us their names, please?

[TheScoop]

I hear you Chempat! But I was a little surprised that Trish had managed to pull out a list of names that looked like my ancestors (which I don't particularly mind, BTW) when I have supplied none to date on this site - my assumption being, that perhaps she knows me from another website.

So, my research centres around my 3rd GGM, Susan Smith (British Subj born France) circa 1827 and her daughter, Jane Smith Gordon (my 2nd GGM) born Aberdeen circa 1849. I say circa as the ages have varied a little across records over the decades. Regards Jane, after 1851 she's well documented and some of the info I have incl. photos have been passed down to me. However, to date I have never found a birth record for Jane. She obviously took her mother's maiden surname as her middle name, a common practice. She married Capt Wm Murray Oudney.

Her mother, Susan Smith - to date, no birth record found (France?). Susan, before marrying Wm Gordon was previously married to a John Kelly, Glasgow way, and they had a son, John Kelly, who is listed in the 1851 census as 5 yrs old. Eventually, he took on William Gordon's surname and thereafter was recorded as John Gordon. Jane is just 1 yr old on same census. I have a likely marriage record between Susan and Wm - 1851. This would indicate Jane was born out of wedlock with her parents, or Wm was not her biological father but he took her in. This is a brick wall I've had for a while.

I DNA match to a descendant in the line of Jane's brother's (Wm Gordon born 12 years later) and also to her Uncle, Susan's brother Alexander b 1824 - a DNA match to his descendants.

The only clue I have to Susan Smith's mother is from the marriage record of Alexander, her brother (born 2-3 yrs earlier) for 1883. She is listed as Jean Smith, maiden surname, Rose (but could be Rosen, or Roser) and deceased. Perhaps she was French. Can't find a death record for her, perhaps she died giving birth or didn't die in scotland. All these questions and more! Anecdotally, other family members has suggested Jane might have been illegitimate - but no proof either way.

Hope that helps.

Nikki