So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?

[prairiegypsy]

I was raised being told my paternal great grandparents were English Gypsies. My grandmother told me her parents would not allow her to marry my grandfather for 13 years (until they left England and came to America) because his parents were Gypsies. And there were many other stories.

I have discovered several generations of ancestors who appear that they could have been Gypsies or Travellers based on their occupations: hawkers, tinkers, mat makers, general dealer, umbrella maker. And they intermarried with only a few families with names like Richardson, Smith and Loveday. Many of the females were named Kezia.

Most lived in Rutland and some in Islip and Cottingham, Northamptonshire. Surnames were Browett, Blades, Frisby, Mitchell, Sculthorpe, Woodcock, Sharman, Wright.

Now here’s what I don’t understand. According to my DNA testing, I’m 97% English and 3% Irish. So it seems unlikely my family’s “Gypsies” were Romany or even Irish Travellers.
 
So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller) if they weren’t Romany or Irish? Did families sometimes "choose" to call themselves Gypsies and live the "lifestyle" for any variety of reasons?

[Ruskie]

As far as I am aware, no one has ever been allocated a percentage of “gypsy” ethnicity. Those ethnicity estimates, are just that, an estimate, and a very rough one at that, and are compared to a small database of others who have an alleged ancestry paper trail from specific regions.

You are not supposed to take them too literally.

There are many articles online about this and their test samples such as https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/1/28/18194560/ancestry-dna-23-me-myheritage-science-explainer

If your paper trail leads to “gypsy” ancestors then that is what you should rely on rather than your percentages.

There have been a number of threads here on rootschat about gypsies and I will leave it to you to research that as it is not within my realm of knowledge. If you go to the dark bar at the top of the page and enter “gypsy” or gypsies” into the search box, you will see other threads on the subject.

 

[Mike in Cumbria]

For legal purposes, being classed as a "Traveller" depends on lifestyle rather than ethnicity (but excludes circus performers, show-people etc ).

[Lola5]

See this site
https:www.ourmigrationstory.org.uk/oms/romani-gypsies-in 16th-century-britain


It seems they stemmed from immingants known as Egyptians..  or Romano  Egyptians who arrived in Britain in 1500's.  There was a lot of  immigration at this time...
I have Smiths from Warks. and Leics. in my tree but there were also gypsies surnamed Smith ( eg. Evening Smith) )
christened in same church as my folk( who weren't gypsies as far as I know).

[Ruskie]

Which company did you take your DNA test with? Have you uploaded your raw data to other sites to see what ethnic percentages they allocate?

[Rosinish]

G/grands are not too far back, have you managed to trace the line back & further from BMDs/census' to find out whether there's any truth in the stories as this may have been a 'story' to cover up illegitimacy or something else?

Annie

[prairiegypsy]

Both Ancestry and 23andMe. Both had identical results. No, I haven't uploaded the raw data. I'm also extremely fair skinned with freckles and light eyes (as were my grandparents) so it's just hard to imagine Romany ancestry.

Also, my Gypsy ancestors did not appear to travel as most everyone was born in the same couple of towns. After reading several articles including those in this thread, I'm starting to think they self-defined as Gypsies for reasons (and a history) that I just don't know.

[prairiegypsy]

Annie, yes I've traced them back a couple hundred years but I only know the occupations from when census's were taken. My 3rd great-grandmother had four illegitimate children but she ultimately married the children's father, Henry Browett of Rutland, and all of the children had the surname Browett.

My great-grandfather was given the middle name Browett and several other family members for several generations were also given the middle name Browett. I was told my great-grandfather was closely related to the head of the tribe. I now presume that was my 3rd great grandfather, Henry Browett, for whom the other Browetts seem to have been named after.

What I don't know and likely will never know is "why" they were Gypsies if they were not Romany or Irish Travellers (which they don't appear to be but I can't know for sure).

Since my grandmother was not allowed to marry into the family while she lived in England, I have no doubt they were considered Gypsies. I just have the curiosity of WHY the family defined themselves as Gypsies. Or perhaps some people were simply called Gypsies because they were considered unacceptable by society at the time? 

[Ruskie]

Yes, it is hard to know what is true, partly true, or not true, when it comes to family stories. 

Have you made contact with any of your DNA matches to see if they have similar stories of gypsies in their families?

Gypsy might have been used as a general term in your family rather a literal use of the word, but if your paperwork indicates “gypsy” don’t let the DNA results sway you.