Author Topic: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?  (Read 9702 times)

Offline prairiegypsy

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 15 December 19 00:55 GMT (UK) »
Ruskie, yes, I once spoke with a third cousin who said she aware there was "something" (negative) with the family, but her father would not speak about it because "the children" (my generation) were not to ever know.

That was years ago. I think I will look into other DNA connections. Thanks Ruskie!

Offline Ruskie

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 15 December 19 01:01 GMT (UK) »
Ruskie, yes, I once spoke with a third cousin who said she aware there was "something" (negative) with the family, but her father would not speak about it because "the children" (my generation) were not to ever know.

That was years ago. I think I will look into other DNA connections. Thanks Ruskie!

 :) Makes you all the more determined to find out doesn’t it.   ;)

Are there any older generations still alive who may be able to help? Things that may have been shocking years ago, are probably of little consequence these days. Older generations will realise that and may be willing to talk to you?

Offline Rosinish

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 15 December 19 01:41 GMT (UK) »
We've seen on RC, BCs where the child was born in a caravan or field & siblings born in several different locations which would identify with being of gypsy people.

I've known of people who were not gypsies who travelled around selling their wares or working on/at different occupations away from their home town whatever it may be just to make a living as it was what had to be done.

Do you have children born in caravans or fields?

Your family may have earned the name 'gypsy' by others just because they associated with gypsies, who knows?

I agree with Ruskie, getting in touch with your matches may yield some info?

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline prairiegypsy

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 15 December 19 03:10 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately no, there are no older generations alive to tell the story. I am now the older generation.  ;D  I actually think the "thing" they were not supposed to talk about was simply the fact that there were Gypsies in the family. Although that's a non-issue (but interesting) to me, it was clearly a huge, life-changing issue for my grandparents and their families in England.


Offline Rosinish

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 15 December 19 03:17 GMT (UK) »
My only other suggestion is to check out the neighbours of your 'gypsy' ancestor on census records which may give a clearer picture?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Ruskie

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 15 December 19 04:07 GMT (UK) »
Good ideas from Annie to check the neighbours on the censuses and the addresses of children’s births. It could all add up to paint a bigger picture.

I don’t know much about the subject, but I thought that gypsies married within fairly narrow family boundaries, so perhaps your grandfather’s family were against the marriage as much as your grandmother’s family?

Have you looked at your surnames and locations to see if they are known gypsy surnames? I think there are lists somewhere though my quick searches haven’t yielded much.

Something I should have asked earlier ..... what percentages of what ethnicities would you expect to see if your grandfather’s family were gypsies? For what the percentages are worth 97% English and 3% Irish may not exclude that probability.

Added: Have you traced both your grandmother and grandfather’s lives in England? What ages were they when they eventually married?

Offline Rosinish

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 15 December 19 05:03 GMT (UK) »
Have you checked out the husband of couple who had to wait 13 yrs to marry?

What was he & his family doing prior, where was he born, what was his & fathers' occs?

Have you seen images of baptisms/births/censuses for specifics as I don't think a census transcription would tell if someone was born in a caravan or field but a baptism or birth may do, I've seen it on RC, I just can't recall which doc. gave the info?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Erato

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 15 December 19 05:09 GMT (UK) »
Wiltshire:  Banks, Taylor
Somerset:  Duddridge, Richards, Barnard, Pillinger
Gloucestershire:  Barnard, Marsh, Crossman
Bristol:  Banks, Duddridge, Barnard
Down:  Ennis, McGee
Wicklow:  Chapman, Pepper
Wigtownshire:  Logan, Conning
Wisconsin:  Ennis, Chapman, Logan, Ware
Maine:  Ware, Mitchell, Tarr, Davis

Offline prairiegypsy

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Re: So what makes someone a Gypsy (or Traveller)?
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 15 December 19 05:18 GMT (UK) »
Ruskie, my Gypsy ancestors did intermarry with only a few other families -- the Smiths, Richardsons and Lovedays. (My original post goes into some detail.) The family's surnames were Browett, Blades, Frisby, Mitchell, Sculthorpe, Woodcock, Sharman, Wright.

I am hoping someone more knowledgeable than me will tell me if these are Gypsy/Traveller names.

Yes, I've traced my grandparents' lives in England. They met and begin "walking out together" at age 16. It was my grandmother who told me her family wouldn't allow a marriage because of my grandfather's Gypsy lineage. In 1919, when my grandparents were 27 (and still not married), they sailed from Southampton to New York. They married in 1920 at the age 28.

As to the ethnicity percentages, I assumed there would be something indicating possible Romany heritage or a greater percentage of Irish ancestry, but I actually understand little about it and am probably misguided.  ;D

I'm not doubting the Gypsy heritage in my family. I believe there is sufficient evidence. I'm just wishing I knew what kind of Gypsies/Travellers they were. I guess my original question, "What makes someone a Gypsy?," is more philosophical than literal. Thanks for your help!