Author Topic: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary  (Read 1823 times)

Offline ailisgara3122

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O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« on: Tuesday 17 December 19 16:45 GMT (UK) »
Hello!

I am seeking some help for information on my mysterious great-great grandfather John O'Neill.

He was born on 26 April 1886 in Cloghane, County Kerry.

He joined the RIC when he was 18, so that means some male family member was also serving since I was told a person had to be 19 in order to sign up.

On 8 January 1905 he was stationed in Hollymount, Mayo and married Josephine Loughlin whose father, James, was a retired Sergeant in the RIC.

These two dates come from John's natualization records but I cannot find any documents online to support this claim. I cannot find his marriage record in the online Civil Marriage records so I don't know his father's name. And the ages for him don't line up in the 1901 census for John O'Neill's in Cloghane.

He had a brother named Edmund who lived in Claremorris. He listed his brother as his contact in Ireland when he came to the U.S. in 1920 after serving in WWI in the 3rd Royal Irish Regiment.

I was able to find his discharge papers on findmypast.com which lists his birthdate and birth location.

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Has anyone found that a 15 year old was listed as a 21 year old on a census?!

Thank you all for any help you could provide!
(O') Gara of Castlerea, (O') Loughlin, Price, Cassidy, Cunningham, McDonnell, Brennan of Creggan and Edmonstown, Tanner of Strokestown, O'Neill of Cloghane, Hickey of Cork, Dwyer of Dare, Carroll of Killenby, and Lyons of Drogheda

Online ShaunJ

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 17:25 GMT (UK) »
It appears that he was in the RIC in June 1906 when daughter Mary was born: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01736/1686228.pdf

However his army papers (starting 1909) state his civilian occupation as carman. There is a note of what looks like a marriage date but no detail:
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 17:52 GMT (UK) »
The normal RIC rules were that you had to have served 7 years before you were allowed to marry, so it would not normally be possible for a 19 year old policeman to have married (and remained in the force).

I don’t see a birth in 1886 in Cloghane, nor a marriage in 1905/6 in the civil records.
Elwyn

Online ShaunJ

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 19:01 GMT (UK) »
Quote
He joined the RIC when he was 18, so that means some male family member was also serving since I was told a person had to be 19 in order to sign up.

Was he John O'Neill, RIC number 61257? The record shows his age as 20 years and 7 months on appointment 16 February 1903, It appears that he served in Mayo from October 1903 until he resigned in July 1909 ("disciplinary, charges admitted").
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Sinann

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 19:06 GMT (UK) »

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 19:18 GMT (UK) »
Rootsireland has John & Josephine’s marriage, from the church records. It was on 8.1.1906 at Kilcommon & Robeen chapel, in Mayo. Josephine was O’Loughlin rather than Loughlin. Witnesses were Patrick & Maria O’Loughlin. John’s townland (address) was Hollymount. None for Josephine. No fathers names.
Elwyn

Offline Sinann

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 19:27 GMT (UK) »
This appears to be Josephine in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Hollymount/Hollymount_Town/1578566/
Wouldn't worry too much about the O appearing and disappearing.

Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 19:39 GMT (UK) »
Possibly Patrick Loughlin (witness at the wedding, and presumably a close relation) in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Hollymount/Main_Street/706273/
Elwyn

Offline Sinann

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Re: O'Neill, John, Royal Irish Constabulary
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 17 December 19 21:03 GMT (UK) »

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Has anyone found that a 15 year old was listed as a 21 year old on a census?!

Thank you all for any help you could provide!

I assume you are referring to this family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Cloghane/Ballynalacken/1408233/
I think this is their son John born 14 July 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02765/2016283.pdf
which would give an age of 18/19 in 1901
Having trouble with the other children to check
There is a Jeremiah in 1885 to this couple but he would be a bit old, can't see a death for him but there is another Jeremiah in the area in 1889 but the link is connecting to the wrong image and I can't find the correct one.