Author Topic: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873  (Read 8250 times)

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 21 December 19 08:58 GMT (UK) »

"..Will add this to the 'evidence' that Annie and Sylvia were estranged. "

I am suggesting that, far from being estranged, the association between Sylvia SIMMONS and Annie Mabel GARDINER might not be what the marriage certificate records.....foster mother from birth.

Maybe an association of much shorter history.

The earliest evidence that you have that your Annie Mabel ever existed is her name on the marriage certificate, with Sylvia SIMMONS named as foster mother?.

Sylvia SIMMONS is important to your research. Who is the informant on her death certificate.....the person who can name her parents...knows her age........and Sylvia has no family and her husband is long since gone.

Is there another burial in plot?

Offline Leanne Pethick

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 21 December 19 09:00 GMT (UK) »
wivenhoe Reply #19

Yes, have this death certificate and attached it to post my reply #10
Sylvia's mother's name was given as 'Harriett' with Maiden Name Uknown (see Canning Family Tree 2019 https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/165067593/person/172151602934/facts )

I have named all the files in the Gallery so that if I/you do a 'Sort By A-Z' they come up in Chronological order (Initially did this for my parents, but has been really helpful for me as the number of documents for people increases!).

Re: "When Sylvia dies there is someone around who knows about her origins.  Age 81 seems very specific."  Yes... AND as she had lived in the same small town for over 50 years, and had a lot of dealings with courts in the area ;-) there would have been a lot of people who knew her.
AND I do have 'contact the cemetery' on my ToDo list.   She is in an unmarked grave there (Thanks to "George Spadon from https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/161050273/sylvia-simmons for the photo") - I always like to acknowledge the help from people who have no idea who / how they are helping!

Thanks heaps for the additional information about the cemetry / where exactly she is buried!  Will be on the phone Monday morning :)

WOW - your "Thinking aloud...some possibilities..." sounds like me in my head late at night! :)
Some fabulous cogitations here... have pasted them into the doc that is going to keep me busy for sometime to come.

My very deepest thanks for your time & generosity.
Humbly
Leanne
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Offline Leanne Pethick

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 21 December 19 09:08 GMT (UK) »
Oooohhhh!  Never thought of that!
It would explain a couple of things that have mystified me...
1. Absolutely no mention in any of the numerous newspaper articles about Sylvia of her ever having a daughter.
2. The small insights into her lifestyle from those articles... time and again (and mentioned I am sure in the word doc I also attached to reply #10) I have asked 'where would Annie have been?'   Some of the articles refer to events / actions that really had me wondering if this woman had a young child living with her.

All I know is that there is no headstone... it is an unmarked grave.
Am off to send an email to the address you provided tonight.

HUGE thanks Wivenhoe!!!


"..Will add this to the 'evidence' that Annie and Sylvia were estranged. "

I am suggesting that, far from being estranged, the association between Sylvia SIMMONS and Annie Mabel GARDINER might not be what the marriage certificate records.....foster mother from birth.

Maybe an association of much shorter history.

The earliest evidence that you have that your Annie Mabel ever existed is her name on the marriage certificate, with Sylvia SIMMONS named as foster mother?.

Sylvia SIMMONS is important to your research. Who is the informant on her death certificate.....the person who can name her parents...knows her age........and Sylvia has no family and her husband is long since gone.

Is there another burial in plot?
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.


Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 21 December 19 09:11 GMT (UK) »
Can you please list all the information on the 1909 death certificate for Sylvia SIMMONS.
Having this information.....all of it at one place...would be useful.

Online Mckha489

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 21 December 19 09:26 GMT (UK) »
Can you please list all the information on the 1909 death certificate for Sylvia SIMMONS.
Having this information.....all of it at one place...would be useful.

It was attached on reply 10
currently concentrating on a number of Staffordshire families.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 21 December 19 09:51 GMT (UK) »

Thank you. I am seeing the 1909 death certificate now.

The information about her origins goes beyond what would be known about a resident of long standing, well known in the town. When Sylvia dies there is someone around who knows her very well........a relative I suspect.

Using BDB VIC Index ....I see children born to Margaret SLATTERY and Francis SHERRY, parents of your Joseph Patrick SHERRY, which names I see again for sons of Joseph Patrick SHERRY and Annie Mabel GARDINER.

Except for Leonard..... Is this just a popular name at the time, or is it a given name or family name from Annie's family?

Offline Leanne Pethick

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 21 December 19 13:09 GMT (UK) »
Wivenhoe Reply #32

Regarding:  "Except for Leonard..... Is this just a popular name at the time, or is it a given name or family name from Annie's family?"

While seeking to learn more about a particular DNA match tonight,

Francis Sherry & Margaret Slattery's first child was Hugh Leonard Sherry born 1960 in Melb.  He was Joseph's elder brother, so that is where that name came from I think we can safely assume?

PS.  Blimey!  Every 'little' investigation takes soooo long!

pps.  How funny - this forum changes 'O M G' to 'Blimey' - such an ocker word :D
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 21 December 19 14:25 GMT (UK) »
Cor

Maybe your DNA will reveal which surnames are the blood ones

Spanner in works
Is there anothr Sylvia

If estrangement came after birth of 1st child I wonder if that's when
She found out she'd been lied to all her life and that Sylvia did know the real parents ...or was the grandmother .
Are the daughters named after anyone else in Sherry or Gardner family ?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 21 December 19 14:55 GMT (UK) »
DO NOT PAY for two accounts
Take turns opening subs to each and invite yourself to be manager of the other account

When you have subs to one you can still manage the other

I have 3 email accs ..two are mine the other is my sister's defunct account which we have linked to Scots aunt's DNA
I don't receive messages for that one unless I hack in using her password but can see DNA matches thru lines and add to the tree
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson