Author Topic: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873  (Read 8249 times)

Online Jamjar

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #9 on: Friday 20 December 19 23:54 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat, Leanne.  :)

What is on her marriage certificate?

Annie Mabel May Simmons, born c 1873 in Melbourne Australia or on a ship on the way here.

You think this, why?

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Offline Leanne Pethick

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 21 December 19 00:56 GMT (UK) »
WOW!  Thank you all so much for your really thoughtful (and researched!) replies.  I am amazed!  What a wonderful community :)

I actually have an 11 page document giving all information I have / have found out about Annie that may be helpful.

Most people on Ancestry.com have Annie's Parents as Nathaniel Smith Gardiner and Ellen Sheehan, however I have no idea how they decided this, and from looking at the trees that are public, there is no mention of Sylvia Simmons.

I bought Annie's marriage certificate to Joseph Patrick Sherry and it contained the following information:
Age:   18yo   (implies she was born c1873)
Place of birth:   Melbourne
Place of Residence:   Anakie (both ‘present’ and ‘usual’)
Place of Marriage:   Christ Church Geelong
According to the rites of the Church of England
Rank or Profession:   None given / blank
Parents:   Unknown
Consent Given By: Sylvia Simmons, foster mother from birth of Annie Mabel May Simmons.
Witnessed by the Celebrant, George Lockwood and Sylvia Simmons.
Annie’s husband, Joseph Patrick Sherry, was 22yo, lived in Yarram Yarram, was a Labourer, and his father’s occupation was given as Farmer.


Actually, have just realised I can attach the document.  Have cut it a bit to take out personal information about living people.

So,
1. Sylvia Simmons was Annie's foster ('adopted') mother 'from birth' (I have learnt not to KNOW anything unless I have definitely verified it with a few sources - people told porkies!  ;D)

2. DNA Test:  Mum has had her DNA test done and I have 'control' of it for her.
I just have no idea how to use it!  Uploaded it to GEDmatch a while back, but the youtube videos on how to use this are blowing my brain... and can't find one that tells me what to look for to try to find biological relatives of Annie that weren't here descendants.

3. Sylvia Walden married John Simmons in 1854, they had no children and he 'deserted' her in 1969, not returning.  Sylvia was a 'single' 45yo woman when she (said she) 'fostered' Annie in 1873.  There is a reference in one of the newspaper articles to a 'son', however Silvia's death certificate said 'No Issue'. 

4. Sylvia lived in 'The Anakies' (and I am pretty sure this was actually the town of Anakie, with maybe some small time spent at nearby Beremboke), a small town NW of Geelong, Victoria.  She was living there well before Annie was born and lived there until she died in 1909.

5. The possibility of her being born on a ship is family story only.  Have no facts about her actual birth other than 'Melbourne' - which would have been given / told by Sylvia.

Mckha489

6. Yes, As per p9 of the attached, Annie stopped using Simmons, and started using (a form of) Gardener, between the birth of her first son on 24th Feb 1892 and the birth of her second son on 26th May 1893.  (Note:  Annie was 3 months pregnant with her first son when she married.  Perhaps this caused a 'rift' when Sylvia realised?)

7. Sylvia was born in Glouchester, UK and came to Australia when she was 25 (see attached).  Can't find anything about her husband John, but he appears to be almost irrelevant.

8. Am thinking you are asking for the names of other Children of John & Sylvia?  Or of Annie & Joseph Patrick?  John & Sylvia had no children of their own.  Sylvia may have also fostered a son, but only one mention of a son in a newspaper article (see attached).
All Annie & Joseph's children were born in Gippsland, Victoria, Australia.  The first 2 in Yarram, where Joseph Patrick lived at the time of his marriage, then they moved to Foster (about 60k closer to Melbourne) and all the remaining children were born there.  They lived there until around 1909 when they moved to Leongatha (also Gippsland, again, slightly closer to Melbourne).  Then around 1923 Annie moved to Melbourne (without Joe) with some of her children.  My grandma went with her and was married from Fisher St Malvern, Melbourne.  Annie remained in suburban Melbourne until her death on 6th May 1948. 
Joe did come up to Melbourne to 'live with' the family at various times, but never for very long.  He was an alcoholic and lived in Gippsland with various sons until he was quite ill when Mum's Auntie Nellie took him in and cared for him until his death at 82yo.
 My mum was 13yo and loved her Grandmother dearly. 

Annette7

9. "If her foster mother was a Sylvia Simmons then surely this is where 'Simmons' came from and her birth name was indeed Gardiner".  Can we know this for certain?  Would Annie have known her birth name?

Mckha489
10. No, she had 'no issue' unfortunately :(  (Will attach her death cert as well)

brigidmac
11.  Sylvia never remarried.  Yes, reason why she changed her maiden name is a mystery.  As before, I am suspecting there was a 'rift' between Sylvia and Annie, sometime around the birth of Annie's first son.
But how / why did she choose Gardener???

12. Yes, that is the Sherry Clan!  Most of whom I knew as a child.  Eileen Mary Sherry was my Grandma - died on my 16th birthday.

Jamjar
The 'on a ship on the way here or in Melbourne' is the story my Mum tells.  Marriage Certificate & Death Certificate both give 'Melbourne'

Again, REALLY appreciate the interest.  Hopefully now I have given more info, someone will have an idea where I go next  :)

Warmest Regards
Leanne


I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Online Jamjar

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 21 December 19 01:43 GMT (UK) »
Nathaniel and Ellen had an Ann, but in 1875.

5633/1875 GARDINER Ann parents Ellen SHEEHAN and Nathaniel Smith GARDINER MELB

They then had another daughter in 1879. Lottie married as GARDINER.

Nathaniel died in 1881 and in his will he leaves all to wife Ellen, not mentioning children. Ellen died 1915.

Obit for Ellen - under heading Topics of the Week - http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article254629016 doesn’t mention names of children.

Children mentioned here: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1512583

I can’t make the connection of your Annie to this family.

Jamjar
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Offline Leanne Pethick

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 21 December 19 01:55 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Jamjar,

I agree.  I did spend quite a bit of time a year or so ago trying to reconcile this couple to Annie, but it seemed very unlikely / I couldn't find any evidence to suggest that this was our Annie.  Given they had so many children, it is unlikely that they would foster out one only.

I have learnt that what can happen in Ancestry is that Ancestry may 'suggest' parents, then one person accepts them, then everyone else just blindly also 'accepts' from the hints in other family trees!   
I don't ever 'accept' a person from someone else's family tree until I can confirm it myself though some record... otherwise you can go very astray and waste valuable time on wrong connections!

Warm Regards
Leanne
I am fortunate to have the most wonderful parents! Both still alive and well into their 80s.

Online Rosinish

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 21 December 19 02:06 GMT (UK) »
Just a thought but...

Is it possible Annie may have been a 'Foundling' i.e. named after the people who found her & surname Gardener e.g. if found under a bush & when she was fostered by Sylvia, the info. on foundling may not have been told & only her name given then when Annie married & had her 1st child, Sylvia thought it was maybe the right time to tell the truth as to Annie's 'birth name' which may not be fact if she was a foundling?

Annie
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Offline brigidmac

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 21 December 19 02:25 GMT (UK) »
So is your DNA test from Ancestry ?

If you can link it to your tree

Try looking at matches using the surname match option

If she was a GARDNER GARDINER GARDENERby birth I'm sure you will get some matches .

Tho some may be from another branch ...
I link to Northamptonshire Bugbrook UK GARDENERS.
 they are very prolific families and many emigrated

I recommend not using the similar name option but try each spelling at a time
Then do the Sheehen name
And Simmons.. warden too
 even if she had no children she may have taken in a relative .

Note down any names that come up frequently on shared matches trees ..not just the shsred names because of course they won't share surnames with people on your tree if her birth names are made up

the man named as father on trees may have been the birth father but married to someone else at the time .well worth messaging those with her on their tree and asking where they got their information from and explaining that you have birth certificate that contradicts the trees...maybe some will remove or add a tag if it's wrong  information

Ps I'm in admiration of everything you've already found
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 21 December 19 02:35 GMT (UK) »
Is anyone any good at looking at ship records ...could be some clues there .

I have seen records that say birthplace at sea and death at sea.
Maybe it was her birth mother who was born at sea a generation before .

I don't know about Australian records was Sylvia born in Australia could it be her who was born at sea ?

Would being born at sea entitle you to both nationalities .? Did they originate from UK?

Again using the search by place can help
Without putting in name search by location...the more specific the better
Liverpool cheshire England
Or Glasgow Lanarkshire Scotland
Are better options than just Wales
Again you can choose location s from the trees of your highest matches

Good luck

1 step at a time
What does your mum's ethnicity percent show ?

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 21 December 19 02:48 GMT (UK) »
Is it your tree on ancestry with the lovely photo of (Annie Mabel)grandma Sherry holding a baby ?

Who is that baby?

I suggest you add Sylvia to the tree there is an option for editing relationship add as mother then change relationship foster

Also personalize the life story to give the birth at sea story and growing up with Sylvia .
Add a relationship tag to her profile that shows adopted .

# or leaver her as birth mother and add Gardiner unknown as foster mother
Modified since reinterpretation of marriage record

Your tree is the one which will have most creedance as photo indicates you knew the person .

Thanks for presenting us with an interesting challenge .
Any findings will be a great Christmas present for your mother
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline sparrett

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Re: Searching for Biological Parent of Annie, Born c1873
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 21 December 19 03:18 GMT (UK) »
An observation of no particular help, but I do note out of her 5 daughters,(as listed by wivenhoe) each with 2 given names, Annie has not give one the name Sylvia.

Sue
 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk