Frederick William Saunders

[avm228]

Moses is “Morrie Sanders” in 1881, already a greengrocer. He has a new wife, Elizabeth (née Phillips).

“Fredrick Sanders”, 15, is still at home - a perfumer at this stage.

[Flouncylicious]

Thanks Avm. That's the family I have just been looking at. I haven't found anything for 1891 yet. Witnesses at the wedding Fanny Seymour Fitzgerald (bride's mother) and a Sarah Reece.

[rosie17]

1891 census for Morris Saunders and Elizabeth his occupation fruiterer green
Mile End Town London ..they are with Maria Philips age 86
Piece 305 folio 82

Frederick is not with the family

Rosie

[avm228]

They look likely to be a Jewish family - I wonder whether that tradition was passed down at all?

[Flouncylicious]

Rosie thank you, that's brilliant.
Avm there was family talk of a Jewish connection, which up until now was completely unfounded.

I am now on the 1851 census Moses Saunders b.1781 Woolwich - piece 1589 folio 379 page 32. Listed as a visitor is a Sarah Reese. A Sarah Reece is a witness at Frederick's wedding.

[avm228]

Moses/Morris/Morrie Saunders was supposed to have been born c1835 Spitalfields (per 1871). According to his 1859 marriage his father was Moses Emanuel Saunders, slipper maker.

This may be the family in 1841?

New Court, Spitalfields

Moses Saunders 45 shoemaker born foreign parts
Catharine do 35 N
Mark do 12 Y
Joseph do 6 Y
Saunder do 6 Y
Esther do 3 Y
Jane do Above 1 Y

[avm228]

Moses snr dies in 1843 Whitechapel I think, aged 49.

In 1851 we have the widowed Catharine Saunders with Mark 23, Joseph 17, Esther 14, Saunder 16, Jane 11 and Mary 8.

Might Saunder have become Moses in honour of his late father?

[Flouncylicious]

Thank you Avm. I had gone down a completely different route, but the mention of slippers in the 1851 occupation of Catherine makes me think that yours is the correct line and that Saunder became Moses. I am still working on Moses b.1781 and the Reece/Reese connection.

On the 1851 census, I have Moses b.1839 with mother Elizabeth b.1803 Harrow and father Moses b.1817 Hythe living in Woolwich - piece 1589 folio 260 page 6. It says him and his brother Edward are born in Birmingham, but this is some kind of error as they were both born in Marylebone (MMN Elmore).His father was a bootmaker (hence my thinking this was our Moses). But then I discovered a marriage for Moses b.1839 - father Moses Saunders a bootmaker, to a Maria Warren in Kent in 1861.
Would value your opinion.

[avm228]

Yes I saw the Hythe family too - but concluded they were likely to be a red herring for the same reasons.