Forthcoming visit to the Somme Battlefield. Advice please.

[onefortheroad]

Sorry for the delay in replying.
rsel, yes that's the plan of attack for me too.
Fortunately, my grandfather survived his service on the Western Front, so yesterday, I decided to research his unit (V49 Heavy Trench Mortar Battery, 1/3 West Riding Brigade, 49th Div., R.F.A.).
Working between his service record and The Long Long Trail website, I discovered that he was also at Pozieres at roughly the same time as my Gt.Uncle.
So that's anther thing to research further before July.

Barryd, I can quite well understand that sentiment. But, in the cold light of day, I'd also have to ask: what would Europe and the UK look like today had the Kaiser's German empire been allowed to go unchallenged and subsequently defeated. Still a dreadful loss of life.

[MaxD]

The not so good news:

The war diary for V Heavy Trench Mortar Battery in 49 Div is WO 95/2782/3.  Unfortunately the diary for Jan - Nov 1916 is missing!

The not much better news:

The HQ 49 Division General Staff Diary WO 95/2765 is very good with its location reports which include V TMB.  However, for the action in July 1916, the artillery of 49 Div and 32 Div were, with others, as was usual for large engagements chopped and changed about under one or other artillery commanders in order to concentrate fire.  It thus becomes a question of finding reference to the battery in the diaries of 32 Div HQ and 32 Div HQ Royal Artillery and 49 Div and 49 HQ Royal Artillery during the last days of June and the action in July 1916.  It doesn't help that TMBs tended to be afterthoughts a lot of the time and are often referred to simply as "TMBs" in orders without specifying their numbers.

In mid June, half of V 49 was in the cellars of the Café de la Mairie Aveluy preparing to carry ammunition forward, can't find the other half!  On 24 Jun the battery is listed as in action with no location given, could be Aveluy!  (This out of 32 Div diaries) Need now to go forward in time a bit to see if they can be found in mid July.

More in due course.

MaxD

[onefortheroad]

Hi MaxD.
The information I gleened was from The Long Long Trail. How accurate that website is, you'll probably know better that me. But it lists the battles V49 HTMB were involved in. That, coupled with his posting dates to the Battery are pretty loose evidence, I must admit.
I'd be content if he had to spend the duration in the cellar of the cafe, thus safeguarding the possibility of my existance😁

[MaxD]

I do hope  that in mentioning 32nd Division I haven't given the impression that I was doubting what LLT has to say about 49th Division.  If I had LLT in paper form it would be falling to bits, it is my number one on line go-to site, consulted, without exaggeration every day multiple times, I have even in a very small way, contributed to it via its author!

I was being lead by the line in your post So that's another thing to research further before July which I took to mean trying to find where V 49 TMB was on or around 15 July 1916.  The battery was indeed engaged in the action around Pozieres and if that general location is enough for you then the absence of a battery war diary is immaterial.  However, as the battery was not with 49 Division during July 1916 then finding a more exact location involves finding it under another artillery commander.  (on 30 Jun 1916 all the TMBs of 49 Division were attached either to 32 or to 36 Division - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01osg/ ) .  Placing artillery units under another division temporarily for a particular operation was and is the absolute norm and that is what is happening here.  It is not a permanent move which would show as a transfer in the LLT piece on the division such as the move of 8 East Lancs in its brigade from 37 Division to 34 Division from 6 July to 22 August 1916.

I'd be happy to look more closely unless the knowledge that grandfather was somewhere near Pozieres is good enough for you?

MaxD

[onefortheroad]

Hi MazD.
No, I never thought you might doubt LLT but it's the first time I've used it so didn't know exactly how useful and accurate it was.
My comment about it being another thing to research before July was more referring to work I need to do before we go to France in July. We're there for 3 full days plus two travelling so I want to put as much preparation into it as possible.
We're hoping to stay in Pozieres so there may be some detailed information available there but, in the meantime, if you come across anything giving a position for V49 HTM on the morning of the 15th of July, that would be gold dust to me.
Regards, David.

[MaxD]

Delighted so to do!

In due course hopefully.

MaxD

[onefortheroad]

Many thanks, MaxD. You are undoubtedly a gentleman and a scholar.
David.

[MaxD]

As part of the concentration of artillery resources for 1st July and onwards, X/49, Y/49 and V/49 trench mortar batteries (TMBs) were attached to 32 Division with effect 14 Jun 1916.  This HQ 32 Division order of19 Jun 1916 both shows where they were billeted and that their role was to help in the movement of ammunition
 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_2373_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43112_2367_0-00532

The order refers to an earlier one which is not in the record which may have dealt with the other halves of split batteries.  It is clear from this and from other relevant records that none of the 32 Divisional artillery’s firing orders, firing programmes or ammunition plans have any mention of the heavy trench mortars.  Snippets elsewhere confirm the use of the manpower of some of the TMBs during the preliminary bombardment and the offensive actions from 1 July 1916 on different tasks.
 
For context, the attack of 37 Division on Pozieres, with the East Lancs, was from the south.  32 Division was coming from due west of Pozieres.  The 32 Div artillery massed for the offensive was deployed (reference  here is to the map in the earlier post) in squares W 18, W 11, W 12, Q 33, W 12, W 5, W 3 (11 batteries in total) and in W12, W9, W 17 (4 batteries).  Heavy artillery and a group of French artillery were also employed.  The situation was similar in 29 Division (courtesy of a forum member elsewhere)  where the heavy TMBs were used in the preliminary bombardment but not once the offensive had started.

Thus the best one can say about grandfather’s whereabouts is that he was humping ammo or helping with digging work somewhere around Aveluy,  perhaps billeted with the half in the cellars of the Café de la Mairie in Rue de l’Eglise (the Mairie is now a school, no sign of the café – Google Earth).

So while I can’t improve much on your first thought that grandfather was in the same area as the East Lancs, hopefully the above zeroes in just a bit closer on his whereabouts in those dark days.  You may be able to include Aveluy in your travels.

MaxD

[onefortheroad]

Good morning, Max.
I spent a while yesterday on the link above and plotting the artillery positions on the map. We've decided to base ourselves in Albert from where we can branch out to Aveluy and Pozieres and the area due south. I have a series of three postcards that my grandfather sent home, showing the Basillica at Albert before the battle and after 15 months of bombardment. It'll be interesting to see it in person. Albert is also handy for the Somme Museum where, who knows, we may pick up some more background to my relatives' time in those horrendous days.
When we return, I'll place an update on this thread.
The effort you've put in is greatly appreciated, Max and I thank you warmly.
Regaards, David.