Author Topic: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams  (Read 1384 times)

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #18 on: Monday 15 June 20 12:38 BST (UK) »
Daniel was not buried in Carmarthen Town Cemetery.

Offline Daisyday75

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #19 on: Monday 15 June 20 14:41 BST (UK) »
Hi, I have been searching through Catherine Boswell family trying to find clues. Reading the census she is from very large family of Boswell/Williams all being travelling showmen.  I've also found information in books I have regarding Boswells and Lees saying that they intermarried and travelled together which again points to Edwin more than likely being a Lee or Boswell.  I've tried moving his date of birth to those earlier dates and tried using the different surnames but still doesn't bring anyone up on ancestry.  I'm wondering how good the ancestry search is though as it didn't bring up Daniel's birth and you found it on GRO.
I'll have a read through those newpaper article links see if I can see any clues as well..
I looked through my book on Evans gypsy family in Wales and cannot see anything at all that would link Edwin..I wonder if Daniel birth registration will show something. Probably still say Edwin Evans! My Nan's family always passed them selves off for being Italians as large Italian population but i know this was a cover story as I've had my DNA done and I've no Italian only Indian! Which corresponds to the Romany originating from India.
I will look on the 1939 census see what i can see written like you said. From what I've found in my tree it was very common for Romany men to have more than 1 wife at the same time but i thought by Daniel's generation and Aran's it would not be the done thing??
I'll have a look into those workhouses as it would make sense that Elizabeth ended up there as she had young children and no means of earning a living..I still wonder how she met Daniel as he was 35 years her senior. But they stayed together until he died.
If you found Aran's grave maybe the others would be buried nearby?

Offline Daisyday75

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #20 on: Monday 15 June 20 14:44 BST (UK) »
Elizabeth is buried in Monkton Pembroke not with Daniel..


Offline Daisyday75

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #21 on: Monday 15 June 20 15:13 BST (UK) »
Just tried to read the writing that is over written on the census. It says in red pen NANTYCAWS mass issue XEA G1.20 RL79 I have absolutely no idea what that means!
I don't think I can put the image on here for you to read yourself?

Offline Daisyday75

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #22 on: Monday 15 June 20 15:16 BST (UK) »
on other side of Daniel's name says 'See YXEA-260129 5-7-40 (looks like date?)

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #23 on: Monday 15 June 20 17:06 BST (UK) »
I will ask Ammanford cemetery if Aran is there, but I cannot imagine Daniel being there as well. Daniel died 10 years before Aran. The closest, especially when you have no money, would be Carmarthen. Ammanford is around 20 miles away. I would not rule out cremation with caravan. I need to go to Pembrey again and see if I can find Catherine’s grave, though accept in being buried, she may not have a headstone. At present, there is a 5 mile limit for non-essential journeys in Wales, with the police stopping and questioning, not like England. I will go when I can.

The GRO and local authorities hold different records, so Ancestry may have acquired their records from local authorities. I found a death on the GRO, while Carmarthenshire had no trace of it.

I agree, that Edwin is likely to be either Lee or Boswell. As with Subie, that generation and the one before, there were no birth registrations, even when it was expected. The only hope is a baptism and that it is online. When you look at the article I posted; Stanley Evans actually being Ben Boswell, you would never link them, unlike Samson Boswell/Williams who only changed his surname. I have searched for different permutations of Edwin/Edward Evans/Lee and found nothing from around Subie’s christening date. I did not try Boswell. From the marriage certificates where he is Edwin and then Edward, there may be something in Edward being his ‘real’ name. I tried to piece the Boswell Williams relationships together, but gave up. There were so many of them and then those who changed their name. Although Edwin claims to have been born in Brecon/Radnorshire, that might not be the case, but a place he knew in making him appear to be a local.

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #24 on: Monday 15 June 20 17:43 BST (UK) »
5-7-40 is the date that note was made. Nantycaws is a village near Carmarthen on the way to Pontardulais, what is now the M4. It is a place he would pass many times. I struggled to find the page from the reference. From memory, I only searched using the letters YXEA and then from a short list selected Daniel’s name. This may need to wait until the library is open again and I can access it. I have just looked at what is available freely on Find My Past and cannot identify the record as they are not giving the reference number. There are only 4 that it could be.

Offline Daisyday75

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 08:26 BST (UK) »
Who would've wrote on the census a year later? Was it to update it? I'll see what I can find on ancestry with those letters and Daniel's name.
Your lockdown in Wales is still so strict not being able to go more than 5 miles :o  I was hoping to come to Wales again this year but it's not likely to be any time soon!!
That article with Ben Boswell pretending to be Samuel Williams certainly doesn't fill me with certainty that Edwin was actually Edwin. Edwin Evans sounds a very stereotypical Welsh name which makes me think it wasn't his name..
I have found a baptism for 1846 Edwin Lee parents Augusta and George Monmouthshire Chapel Hill, but I haven't searched the parents a bit more yet.
He is consistent on saying Beguildy on census and consistent with birth date of 1846 so was it because Subie was actually older than him that she consistantly said she was younger that she was on all different records. Even her death certificate has her age much younger? Especially as it was better to say you was older for Romany people...
I've ordered Daniel's birth certificate but it says 7 weeks post and I paid extra for email copy 5 weeks.
Looking into the Boswell/Williams on Catherine's side is a headache! I am going to keep looking though because I have Boswell grandparents further up my tree.  Daniel's great grandmother was Lucy Boswell. As the Boswell and Lees intermarried through the generations I wonder if Daniel was in fact related somehow to Catherine? A cousin? I'm still trawling through the Lees to see if I can find an Edward Lee or a male Lee that corresponds with 1846 or 1837 if he was in fact older than Subie..

Offline Daisyday75

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Re: Samson Williams/Boswell, Nelson Williams
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 16 June 20 08:45 BST (UK) »
Okay, so just found out that mass issue and that date refers to ration books. So it is probably safe to say Daniel was in NantyCaws when his ration book was issued?  So now I'm wondering was Elizabeth still in the living van or did she go with him? I think she stayed as my Nan went to school until she was 10.