Author Topic: Navy records pre-1815  (Read 1198 times)

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Navy records pre-1815
« on: Saturday 11 January 20 17:41 GMT (UK) »
In another post on Rootschat I have been struggling for some time to make sense of the varied occupations, recorded in census information and on various baptism, marriage and death certificates, of John Morland 1775-1845.

From other research I now believe that this is the same John Morland who, in 1828, stood as a candidate for the position of Beadle in Fulham, London....a handbill issued at the time supporting him noted :

 "John Morland, who offers himself as
candidate for the vacant situation of beadle, I feel it but justice to state, has never been in the employ of any Bishop or
priest but for many years in the arduous and honourable service of his king and country at sea ; and I believe him to be a
man of honest, sober and industrious habits, and his family long known in the parish as most respectable payers of parochial
taxes and himself in every respect qualified for the office he solicits, and if successful will of course be regular in his
attendance at church"

"Honourable service of his king and country at sea" supports his occupation listed as either "sailor" or "Mariner" on both of his daughters' marriage certificates in the early 1840s although he is variously noted in other documents as a carpenter. I have other information which suggests that in 1814 or 1815 his mother and two sisters were "talking about the expected return of the only son, after many years absence"....which supports the sailor/mariner theory.

Any suggestions or advice on how I might attempt to locate him on any naval or similar record pre-1815 would be welcome. Family "legend" handed down when I was much younger said  that a "lieutenant Morland" served at Trafalgar but I can find no evidence of that or of any Morlands being at Trafalgar....anywhere.

Any and all comments appreciated, as always on this helpful forum !
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline seaweed

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,305
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 11 January 20 19:56 GMT (UK) »
 On board 18th/19th century warships there were three "standing officers", the Carpenter, Gunner and Boatswain (Bo'sun).They were not commissioned or warrant officers but were considered the most highly skilled seaman on board, they messed and berthed with the crew.
Carpenter, was probably the most important rank as he would be responsible for keeping the ship water tight, Not a simple task on a wooden warship.
So him being described as a Carpenter on other documents would seem to fit.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/9050/




.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815 - John Morland -Battle of the Nile and subsequent POW
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 15:29 GMT (UK) »
In January 2020 I posted some thoughts about the Naval career of John Morland (born 1775) - as below. Further research on Ancestry now suggests that John Morland  fought in the Battle of the Nile, 1-3 Aug 1798.

(Source = Letter written by granddaughter Selina Sorby nee Limpus) in 1925. It is further suggested (although not necessarily in this letter) that "John Morland was imprisoned in the French prison at Saumur - returned to England via a POW exchange in late 1799/early 1800. Presume captured whilst 'prize master' aboard a french ship captured by HMS Fairy".

(I do not know precisely what a "prize master" may have been, unless it was the man in charge of a captured vessel)

Although full crew lists exist for Trafalgar, I do not believe any similar records exist for the Battle of the Nile, but if anyone has any ideas....please let me know. The quoted Selina Sorby (Limpus) letter seems to be a vital record and has other Morland family details of much interest although I have not been able to locate a full version.....



In another post on Rootschat I have been struggling for some time to make sense of the varied occupations, recorded in census information and on various baptism, marriage and death certificates, of John Morland 1775-1845.

From other research I now believe that this is the same John Morland who, in 1828, stood as a candidate for the position of Beadle in Fulham, London....a handbill issued at the time supporting him noted :

 "John Morland, who offers himself as
candidate for the vacant situation of beadle, I feel it but justice to state, has never been in the employ of any Bishop or
priest but for many years in the arduous and honourable service of his king and country at sea ; and I believe him to be a
man of honest, sober and industrious habits, and his family long known in the parish as most respectable payers of parochial
taxes and himself in every respect qualified for the office he solicits, and if successful will of course be regular in his
attendance at church"

"Honourable service of his king and country at sea" supports his occupation listed as either "sailor" or "Mariner" on both of his daughters' marriage certificates in the early 1840s although he is variously noted in other documents as a carpenter. I have other information which suggests that in 1814 or 1815 his mother and two sisters were "talking about the expected return of the only son, after many years absence"....which supports the sailor/mariner theory.

Any suggestions or advice on how I might attempt to locate him on any naval or similar record pre-1815 would be welcome. Family "legend" handed down when I was much younger said  that a "lieutenant Morland" served at Trafalgar but I can find no evidence of that or of any Morlands being at Trafalgar....anywhere.

Any and all comments appreciated, as always on this helpful forum !
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)


Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,563
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 16:12 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Presume captured whilst 'prize master' aboard a french ship captured by HMS Fairy".

There are records of a John Morland in French captivity, maitre de prise, ship Fairy, a ship of war. He was included in a prisoner exchange in 1799. I took this to mean that he had been captured by the French when he was master of HMS  Fairy, which was taken as a prize

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/POW-GALLIP-NAP/40456042
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,563
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 16:24 GMT (UK) »
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 17:00 GMT (UK) »
Many Thanks indeed for that information. I couldn't see the transcript - I need to get myself a FindmyPast subscription. This adds another piece to the jigsaw.

Croz
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,563
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 17:36 GMT (UK) »
So I'm guessing that the Fairy took a French ship as a prize,  John Morland was put aboard as master of the prize crew to take the vessel back to UK, and the prize was then recaptured by the French and he was taken prisoner.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 10 March 21 18:08 GMT (UK) »
It's a good story isn't it   8) !

Croz
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline RobertHauteville

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 31
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Navy records pre-1815
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 14 March 21 11:55 GMT (UK) »
The Fairy's Muster and Pay Book should list everyone on board her, including supernumerys, prisoners, and transfers off muster-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4481869
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4125887

The Captains and Masters Logs should also give more info about the ships movements and actions:-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4459842
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4458634
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2531434

but you'll have to wait until Kew reopens before you can see them...