Author Topic: Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!  (Read 457 times)

Offline stillscrapping

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Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!
« on: Sunday 12 January 20 20:14 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,
I am looking for help, inspiration or just some one to untangle my thoughts!

James Graham b 1783 ish Muiravonside.
I can find no marriage for him but have him on the 1841 census aged 60. And I can find no death for him.
His 'wife' according to his son's marriage certificate is Margaret Pentherer also from Muiravavonside.....(can you imagine how many variations of that name there are!  :o ).
I have her on 1841, 51, 61, 71(aged 68)
There are at least 2 children,Mary and John..... maybe another two Jean and Christian / Christina.
I can find no birth confirmation for any children.
There is some suspicion he may have been married to someone else due to the age gap.
Oh and his last occupation was tollkeeper at Pokemmet Toll. :)

I have been through Ancestry, FindMyPast, family search, scotlands people and various other place but am beginning to lose the plot now. Any advice or pointers would be gratefully received.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 12 January 20 21:05 GMT (UK) »
Background https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

I'm afraid Graham is a common surname and James is a very common given name, which is why there are so many of them.

Margaret's will be Peutherer, an occupation surname derived from Pewterer, i.e. someone who worked with pewter. Search for p*t*r*r to pick up all the variations.

They are indeed very elusive.

I see that Margaret Graham or Peutherer died in Falkirk in 1889 aged 82. Her death certificate ought to tell you the names of her parents including her mother's maiden surname.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline stillscrapping

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Re: Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 12 January 20 23:12 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that info...and yes I think my Graham line only used about 10 different names. :) And I have yet to find a 'Julie' in there.  ;D

I already have Margaret's parents info plus siblings but it is the elusive death of James and their marriage which is evading me. Even Scotlands People are not being much help.....but hey ho. It's a journey of discovery everyday.

Julie.




Offline Annette7

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Re: Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!
« Reply #3 on: Monday 13 January 20 04:06 GMT (UK) »
Can you tell us where you have found them on 1841, 1851, and 1861 census?

I can find her in 1871 aged 68 but finding it difficult following her back before then to get to James himself.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!
« Reply #4 on: Monday 13 January 20 06:57 GMT (UK) »
You need to give more detail about the information you are working with.

Is this your family

Census 1841    at Polkemet Toll     Whitburn   West Lothian   
GRAHAM James                  60     Toll Keeper             b. Scotland
POUTHERER Margaret         35                                  b. Scotland 
GRAHAM Mary                      5                                  b. Scotland
GRAHAM John                                                          b. Scotland
GRAHAM Christina                1m                                b. West Lothian  Scotland
PAUL Margaret                     9                                   b. West Lothian Scotland

Census 1861   at Cow Wynd  Falkirk Burgh Stirlingshire
GRAHAM Margaret               58   head    sewer           b. Muiravonside Stirlingshire
GRAHAM John                     20   son      smith           b. Calder Parish  Edinburgh


Census 1871   at Bean Row  Falkirk Burgh  Stirlingshire
GRAHAM Margaret               68     head  annuitant      b. Muiravonside Stirlingshire
GRAHAM James                     6     grandson               b. Falkirk  Stirlingshire

You need to identify what you are seeing for the 1851 Census.

You have a marriage certificate for the son of this couple. Can you please list all the information on this document.

".. last occupation was tollkeeper at Pokemmet Toll."
 How do you know that this was his last occupation?


           

Offline Annette7

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Re: Dead end with James Graham...why are there so many!
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 14 January 20 02:00 GMT (UK) »
1851 Census - Cow Wynd, Falkirk

Margaret Pewtherer    49     Mason's widow      b. Muiravonside, Stirlingshire
Mary Graham   14       Errand Girl                    b. West Calder, Midlothian
John Graham   10        Scholar                                   ditto
Jean Graham    8         Errand Girl                               ditto
Christina Graham  6     Scholar                        b. Bathgate, Linlithgow (West Lothian).

I confess I'm a bit confused with James Grham's occupations - Toll Keeper in 1841, referred to as a Mason by his widow in 1851, when son John married in 1864 he states his father as Land Steward (deceased), and when Margaret dies in 1889 he's shown as a Coachman!!!

Family moved from Bathgate to Falkirk ca.1845-1851 - there is a burial at Falkirk (on SP) for a James Graham on 17/8/1849 - however his age is given as 57 (bc.1792).   There is no James to match in Falkirk in 1841 so was this 'your' James Graham (no other details, just name and age).  I suspect it could be and perhaps age on 1841 census incorrect.

I see there is a tree on Ancestry submitted by a Julie - is this you?   If so, your ages of children are a little out - should be Mary bc.1836 (5 in 1841), John bc.1840 (aged 1 in 1841), Christina 1m. in 1841 so born 1841 and must have died 1841-1845, Jean bc.1843 (8 in 1851) and another Christina bc.1845 (6 in 1851).

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk