Hello
This is sort of a follow on from 2 other posts, one about Bank Tainewydd/ Tainewydd in Five Roads, Llanelly and the other about the correct surname for John Hanbaus(?), the Illegitimate son of Mary Edmunds of Bank Tainewydd. Looking at these again helped me resolve a conundrum that I have been trying to solve for a long time.
This post is of particular relevance to Dave Davies of Felinfoel who, with me tried to solve the conundrum originally, but who I have lost contact with. So I am hoping he may see this and it may also be of use to others with links to Edmunds of the Five Roads area Llanelly.
David Edmunds (1835/36) was a conundrum as I couldn’t find him in the 1841 and 1851 census. He ‘suddenly” appears in the 1861 census married to a Margaret with 3 children. I say suddenly, as David’s birth year from the 1861-1911 census is consistently 1835/36, Llanelly, but there is no such David in the 1841 or 1851 census for Carmarthenshire. His not being in 1 of the censuses is plausible but missing both seemed very unlikely. However, I think I have finally resolved this
David and His wife Margaret lived for most of their married life at Bank Tainewydd/Tainewydd, Five Roads. Going back through my records I noticed in 1861 also listed at Bank Tainewydd is:
Mary Edmund Head (Unmarr) age 54, Parish Pauper
John Edmund Son (Unmarr) age 21 Coal Miner
In 1851 at Bank Dainewydd is:
Mary Edmund, Head, Widow, 80, Pauper Farm Labourer's wife
Mary Edmund, Dau, Unmarried, 45, Farm Servant
and in 1841 at Taynewydd
are:
Mary Edmunt, 65, Charwoman
Mary Edmunt, 30
Ruth Jones (9)
David Howel (6)
John Hanbaus (2)
I am now convinced Ruth, David and John are all illegitimate children of Mary Edmunt (Edmund) 30. The John listed as Mary’s son in 1861, being John Hanbaus? in 1841, having adopted the surname Edmund in the interim and therefore I think so did David, born as David Howell. Therefore, I think David Howel in 1841 and 1851 is in fact David Edmunds in 1861 and later census.
I think I have found david in the 1851 census, age 16 a Farm Servant at Cwmbach, which is a few doors away from Tainewydd
Addresses David and Margaret lived at are:
1861: Bank Tainewydd
1871: Pantagwenith Fach
1881: Tainewydd
1891: Tainewydd (son Thomas and grandson David Edmund born 1889 living with them)
1901: Tainewydd (son Thomas, daughter Sarah and grandson David Edmund born 1889 living with them)
1911: Tainewydd
Children they had are:
John (1856), Mary (1856), Ann (1860), Ann (1862), Margaret (1865), David (1867), Sarah (1870), Thomas (1872).
From the birth records their later children in the 1911 census, his wife Margaret’s surname is Hugh/Hughes (I think originally Hugh). Plus in the 1911 census they had been married for 55 years, therefore married about 1856. However, I can no record of a David Howell/Edmunds marrying a Margaret Hugh (or any other possibilities) in the GRO records. My gut feeling is that they never officially married, unless someone else can solve this conundrum!
(Just for reference John Hanbaus (later Edmunds) married a Rachel Hughes and lived at Pantygroes, Five Roads).
