William BLACK, ploughman, b-1796? Benholm

[DJBlack]

and his son, William BLACK, ploughman, b-1840? Benholm.

Both are my Grandfathers, from my own family records, I know a number of details about their wives, but nothing about them. I would assume that as farm workers they would be too poor for grave markers. I've tried ScotlandsPeople, which confirms the details I have for their wives, but nothing about them !

Where can I go from here ?

regards
DJB
Bristol 

[Forfarian]

When asking for help, it is useful to tell us volunteers as much as possible so that (a) we can look in the right places and (b) we don't duplicate what you have already done.

Have you found them in a census?

What were the names of their wives? When and where were they married?

When you say that you have information from SP about the wives, what information do you have?

[ciderdrinker]

Hello and welcome to rootschat.
We'll do anything we can to help.
Let's start with a few censuses

1841 Benholm Johnshaven Kincardinshire
William Black 45 is a fisherman
Isabell is 30
John  James Black 15 currier
Alex Smart Black 9
David Curnigie Black is 7
Catherine Barclay 2
Elizabeth Macklie 20 female servant

The sons baptisms give their mother  as Isabel Hoggins as you know.They married 28.10.1820.
William born 11.11.1841 bapt 4.1.1842
Margaret Amelia born 20.2.1844 bapt 23.6.1844 Benholm.
So William Senior  must have alive at least until 1843.But it does look like William senior has died by 1851.
Possible Christening for him at Benholm William s of Johnathan Black and Susan Wyllie
23.7.1794 Benholm .

No sign of William the son on the censuses until 1881.Benbholm Old Slains
William Black 41 farm servant Benholm
Mary 34 Marykirk
William 14 Scholor St Cyrus
James 12 same
Charles 8 Montrose Forfar
Alexander 6 same
John 3 Arbuthnott
Isabella 1 Kinneff
On the 1871 census Mary and the children are with her parents so no help there.

John James Black  marries in Benholm 19.9.1866 to Elizabeth Barclay so the family should be on the 1851 and 1861  census.But no sign.
He has gone into fishing like his father so could they be at sea?


Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
Looking up the sea angle
William Black age 50 Merchant seaman ticket 89114 24 Dec 1844
from Johnshaven Kincardineshire
First at sea 1808 on Orch of Starmore?
Not in Royal Navy
5ft 8in black hair swarthy complexion and grey eyes
Can write
Voyages up to 1845.Seaman and then cook.

Ciderdrinker

[DJBlack]

Forfarian,
             My first ever post and you've destroyed my confidence already !   I don't know very much about family research, as you can tell, got most of my details from family bible, but will try and tell you what I know.

W.BLACK, b-1796? Benholm?   
Couldn't find on census, SP, findagrave, no mention in bible.
Wife - Isabella NAPIER, b-1809 Kinneff
                                  d-1893 Largie Cottage, Roadside of Kinneff
Isabella on census & SP, don't know when married, birth and death, but not marriage in bible.

dau - Betsy BLACK, b-1836? Kinneff?
she wrote the most in the bible, mainly about herself and her family, doesn't mention her father and only her brother in passing, ie on death of her mother, laments that her mother had to look after her brothers two youngest children, whilst in her 80's! 
son - W.BLACK, b-1840? Benholm?
can't find any trace of him until his marriage in 1872, at Seaton of Usan, to Mary HOSEA, (b-1846 Marykirk, d-1887 Garvock)
William, Mary and children are on the 81 census at Old Slains, Kinneff

Isabella and her two grandchildren on the 91 census at Roadside of Kinneff.

So, though I know some details, know next to nothing about the two William Black's.

Hope my ramblings help,
DJB
Bristol

[DJBlack]

Ciderdrinker,
                  Whilst I was replying to Forfarians post, you have been doing all that research, thanks for the warm welcome, I'm the one from Bristol, I should be the 'ciderdrinker' !
                  Do the details I sent Forfarian, make any difference to what you've sent me, haven't had a chance to take it all in,
regards,
DJB
Bristol

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Yes it Does make a difference.
There are two William Black's senior ,one married to Isabella Hogins and the other Isabella Napier.
I had the wrong one.
I'll get onto yours Asap.

Ciderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

So
William Black married Isabella Napier at Glenbervie Kincardineshire 9.6.1832.or 24 June 1832 at Kinneff.
I'm assuming the earlier date is the reading of banns at his parish and the marriage actually took place at the bride's parish of Kineff.

Isabella Napier born 11.2.1809 and bapt 19.Feb 1809 Kinneff d of James Napier and Margaret Low.
William junior born 22.2.1838 bapt 14 Feb 1838 at Benholm.
Betsey 6 Sep 1835 bapt Oct 1835 Kineff
Alexander 18 .10 1833 bapt 7.11.1833 Kinneff
So William is the youngest.

1851 Crowhillock Kinneff
Isabella Black 41 out door farm worker Kineff
Elizabeth 15 dressmaker Kineff
William 12 scholar Kineff


1861 Kinneff Cottar House Crowhillock
Isabella Black 52 Kinneff out worker Kinneff
William Black 23 day lab Benholm
John Napier brother 53 day lab Kinneff

Found the 1841 after a struggle
Moat Hill Benholm
Isobel Black 30 ag lab
Alexander 7
Betty 5
William 3

So William senior must have died 1837-1841

Cidderdrinker

[ciderdrinker]

William not with his mother in 1871
1871 Kinneff Cotter House
Isabella Black 61 out worker
John  Napier 62  brother labourer

1881 Warhead Cottage Kinneff
Isabella Black 72 farm servants widow
John Napier 73 lodger former ag lab

He appears on the 1901 census at Roadside Largie Kineff so must be alive then.

Unfortunately Scots people website is down till Tuesday so I can't look for deaths for either William senior or junior on that or a will/probate for William senior till then.
I've checked for a Will for William junior but no sign.
There is a family tree which gives a death for him 8.10.1916 Roadside of Largie Kincardinshire which sounds right but I can't check because SP down.

It seems wife Mary died between 1881-1801 and he remarried a Margaret Keith Davidson born 1849 sometime between 1891 and 1901.

Brother Alexander's 2nd marriage in 9.12.1868 Stonehaven to Mary Ann Thomson gives William senior as a farm servant dec .Alexander is a railway labourer age 35.

Ciderdrinker