Author Topic: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match  (Read 2221 times)

Offline jillruss

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Poppy
    • View Profile
Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« on: Sunday 26 January 20 17:52 GMT (UK) »
I'm trying to find a possible DNA match for the natural father of my 3xgreat grandfather William Stubbs. I've looked from the angle of surname and placename (Ightfield in Shrops) without any success. I have a possible candidate - the man she eventually married - but that was a good 8 years later so probably unlikely.

I do realise that its perfectly possible that there isn't yet anyone who's tested who's a match.

 I thought I'd take a look at this painter tool that some of you seem to swear by, but it doesn't give any numbers at all for 3xgreat grandparents. This can't be because there's no chance of a match as I've found matches further back than that generation.

Is there an average number? Or, if so, is it so low that - basically - the match could be anywhere in the 'lower ranked' matches i.e. a needle in a haystack? Perhaps I'm better off sticking to surnames and placenames?

HELP!!!

 BATHSHEBA BOOTHROYD bn c. 1802 W. Yorks.

Baptism nowhere to be found. Possibly in a nonconformist church near ALMONDBURY or HUDDERSFIELD.

Offline rlw254

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 26 January 20 20:51 GMT (UK) »
It's certainly not needle in a haystack. The chances get slimmer the farther back you go but 3x/4x-great-grandparent is absolutely reasonable. What you need to do is begin to assemble a group of DNA matches that you can absolutely confirm to be descendants of the 3x-great-grandparents. You're then looking for others that match these people within that group. If the matches are through a site that allows you to see segment data then you need to enter the segment data into dnapainter and begin to look for triangulating matches. Say a descendant of your 3x-great-grandparents matches you at a specific portion of chromosome 1 - someone else who matches you with a segment that overlaps that first segment but does not descend from your same 3x-great-grandparents is likely related to either one of them somewhere upstream (i.e. 4x, 5x, etc.)


Offline sugarfizzle

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,515
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #2 on: Monday 27 January 20 06:22 GMT (UK) »

I thought I'd take a look at this painter tool that some of you seem to swear by, but it doesn't give any numbers at all for 3xgreat grandparents. This can't be because there's no chance of a match as I've found matches further back than that generation.

Is there an average number? Or, if so, is it so low that - basically - the match could be anywhere in the 'lower ranked' matches i.e. a needle in a haystack? Perhaps I'm better off sticking to surnames and placenames?

If you are talking about DNApainter, it gives average, low, and high self reported values for as far distant as 8C.

As these are self reported by those who have undertaken DNA tests, and there are no rules as to how submitters have come to this conclusion, this is not based on science (not suggesting that values are falsified, but is there proof positive that the relationship is not only correct but DNA is inherited from this common ancestor, rather than another one?) However, certainly for the closer relationships, it appears to have a high degree of accuracy.

You would be looking for potential 4th/5th cousins or thereabouts (descendants of your 3G grandfather could be half fourth cousins, descendants from his siblings could be full 5th cousins) On DNApainter 4th cousins gives the value of 35 average, low 0 and high 137. A high proportion of 4th cousins will not show as a DNA match.

Try experimenting with DNApainter and your known DNA connections. Get a feel for how it works.

Try typing in 35 cMs - you should see the following box, with the chart underneath highlighting likely relationships -

51.39%  6C 6C1R 5C 6C2R 4C1R 5C1R 7C Half 3C2R 4C2R 5C2R 7C1R 3C3R 4C3R 5C3R 8C or more distant

18.07%  Half 3C 3C1R Half 2C2R 2C3R

17.88%  4C Half 3C1R 3C2R

9.53%  3C Half 2C1R 2C2R Half 1C3R

3.13%  Half 1C2R † Half 2C 2C1R 1C3R

~ 0%. ** Half GG-Aunt / Uncle

Hope this helps, you may be talking about a different painter altogether!
Regards Margaret
STEER, mainly Surrey, Kent; PINNOCKS/HAINES, Gosport, Hants; BARKER, mainly Broadwater, Sussex; Gosport, Hampshire; LAVERSUCH, Micheldever, Hampshire; WESTALL, London, Reading, Berks; HYDE, Croydon, Surrey; BRIGDEN, Hadlow, Kent and London; TUTHILL/STEPHENS, London
WILKINSON, Leeds, Yorkshire and Liverpool; WILLIAMSON, Liverpool; BEARE, Yeovil, Somerset; ALLEN, Kent and London; GORST, Liverpool; HOYLE, mainly Leeds, Yorkshire

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.go

Offline medpat

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,351
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #3 on: Monday 27 January 20 07:53 GMT (UK) »
I have links to 2 sets of 4th gt grandparents and 3 sets of 3rd gt grandparents - you just need patience as DNA is a waiting game. ;D
GEDmatch M157477


Offline jillruss

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Poppy
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #4 on: Monday 27 January 20 12:47 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, all.

Very helpful. yes, I did mean the DNA Painter. I have to admit to being reluctant to trying it but I'll do as you suggest, Margaret, and try experimenting with it.

Jill
HELP!!!

 BATHSHEBA BOOTHROYD bn c. 1802 W. Yorks.

Baptism nowhere to be found. Possibly in a nonconformist church near ALMONDBURY or HUDDERSFIELD.

Offline BushInn1746

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,108
  • My Family's Links 19th Cent
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #5 on: Monday 03 February 20 12:40 GMT (UK) »
Hello Jill

Re your Bathsheba Boothroyd is the following 1831 George Boothroyd of Honley [in Almondbury], Huddersfield (death at his son's, Solicitor in Stockport) snippet, your family?

Mark

Offline jillruss

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Poppy
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #6 on: Monday 03 February 20 14:57 GMT (UK) »
Mark,

How kind of you to take the time to send me that clip.

George would certainly have been the right age and in the right area to have been Bathsheba's father but there are others. That's the problem I'm facing, quite a few Boothroyds in the area, but, without some kind of documental reference to a birth/baptism/christening for her (or something else before her marriage in 1823), I'm totally at sea!!!

I think it may well be one of those brickwalls that never gets pushed down, but I haven't given up quite yet!!

Thanks so much.

Jill
HELP!!!

 BATHSHEBA BOOTHROYD bn c. 1802 W. Yorks.

Baptism nowhere to be found. Possibly in a nonconformist church near ALMONDBURY or HUDDERSFIELD.

Offline BushInn1746

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,108
  • My Family's Links 19th Cent
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #7 on: Monday 03 February 20 23:47 GMT (UK) »
Hello Jill

With a name like Bathsheba and no C of E Baptism, I can't help but think ... from a Religious family a Dissenting or Non C of E preacher / follower.

You may have seen the following Rev B. Boothroyd online already ...

Cheltenham Chronicle, Gloucestershire, 22nd September 1836
On the 8th inst. the Rev. B. Boothroyd, D.D. Pastor of the Independent Church, at Highfield Chapel, Huddersfield, in the 69th year of his age, having been ...

D.D. Doctor of Divinity

The Rev. B. Boothroyd was previously at Pontefract and wrote several books too. A Bible published 1836 has text taken from a B. Boothroyd, D.D., family Bible?

Don't forget Lane Chapel Holmfirth.

 -----------

By the way what was Bathsheba Sykes address / place of death at Almondbury in 1844?

 ----------

Boothroyd Ministers in Dissenting Card Index
Dr Williams's Centre for Dissenting Studies. The Dr Williams Library https://dwl.ac.uk/index.php

"Citations should take the form: The Surman Index Online, Dr Williams's Centre for Dissenting Studies, http://surman.english.qmul.ac.uk " Looking at the Surman Card Index (Cards viewable but from brief citations found in old published books) of Dissenting Ministers ... interesting a John Boothroyd was claimed to be born Pontefract 1810 on the same index (when clicking on B for surname and then on each name in the list).

 -----------

There is another specialist place for trying to trace NC, I believe especially Wesleyan / Methodists at the John Rylands University Library, Manchester.

 ----------

Added: Rev. Dr. Boothroyd Above Not Apparent Match to the One in Pontefract Parish Register

A site online (claiming to use Ancestry Family Trees) has mixed the above Rev. Dr. Boothroyd of Huddersfield and the Doctor's Wife who died 1832
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jGQ3AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=1832+%22Dr+Boothroyd%22+Huddersfield&source=bl&ots=nwZjranQDB&sig=ACfU3U3e2IciR5gueV9zZGoGu9yUEJxyAQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjlxbjl4rbnAhUjolwKHSBHDDkQ6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=1832%20%22Dr%20Boothroyd%22%20Huddersfield&f=false
seemingly incorrectly with a Benjamin Boothroyd who married Pontefract 1801 and whose [transcribed f m p] Licence ages of 21 giving his birth about 1780, doesn't match the above Rev. Dr. B. Boothroyd birth year.

Mark

Offline BushInn1746

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,108
  • My Family's Links 19th Cent
    • View Profile
Re: Searching for a 3x great grandfather DNA Match
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 04 February 20 08:53 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning Jill

Further to last evening's post (I presume with some types of DNA testing you try and bring any descendants of a possible link, forward in the Census etc., to someone living with a match today?), here are three of the Marriages of the Rev. Dr. Boothroyd's (of Huddersfield) children found in newspapers ...

Three Marriages in Newspapers of Rev. Dr, Boothroyd's of Huddersfield Children

Leeds Mercury, Yorkshire, 16th February 1833
On Wednesday, …
Same day, Mr E. Eastwood, dyer, to Sarah, youngest daughter of the Rev. Dr. Boothroyd, all of Huddersfield.

By Licence?
[Sarah Boothroyd aged 20 per f m p transcription]
[Edmund Eastwood aged 27 per f m p transcription]

 ----------

Leeds Times, Yorkshire, 6th November 1833
Yesterday morning, Mr J. Boothroyd, draper, of Huddersfield, son of the Rev. Dr. Boothroyd, to Miss Ann Houghton, daughter of the late Mr. Enoch Houghton, Surgeon, of that place.

By Licence?
[Joseph Boothroyd aged 22 per f m p transcription]
[Ann Houghton aged 19 per f m p transcription]

 ----------

Sun (London) 6th April 1836
On the 1st inst., at North Meols, Mr Samuel Boothroyd, son of the Rev. Dr. Boothroyd, to Sarah, daughter of the Rev. George Greatbach, of Southport.

See also the Evening Chronicle, London
On Good Friday, at the parish church, North Meols, Mr Samuel Boothroyd, son of the Rev. Dr. Boothroyd, to Sarah, daughter of the Rev. George Greatbatch, of Southport.

Sheffield Independent, 16th April 1836
On the 1st instant, at the parish church of North Meols, Mr S. Boothroyd, of Southport, son of the Rev. Dr. Boothroyd, of Huddersfield, to Sarah, the youngest daughter of the Rev. George Greatbatch, of Southport.

*See also Manchester Times 16th April 1836 and
*See also Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser 16th April 1836

*Possible Boothroyd Relatives / Friends Manchester / Lancashire area? (See below and my previous reference to Stockport)

 ----------

I've stopped my Ancestry Sub., and the two 1833 Marriage images will probably be there, to check for any possible Bathsheba / Bathia / Sykes witness signatures?

 ----------

Added: Possible Charles Boothroyd Also Connected with the Highfield Chapel, Huddersfield?
1846 ... at Highfield chapel, Huddersfield, by the Rev. J. Glendenning, Mr. Wm. Brook, to Mary, second daughter of Mr. Charles Boothroyd, all of Honley.

 ----------

1830 8th July, Leeds Intelligencer,
A Court for the Relief of Insolvent Debtors was opened at Wakefield, before William John Law, Esq. Commissioner. [Sitting dates all June]
The petition of JOSHUA BOOTHROYD, formerly of Almondbury, near Huddersfield, fancy manufacturer, and since of the same place and of Manchester, commission agent, was dismissed, he having been discharged by this Court about three years ago, and not having obtained the consent of three-fourths of his Creditors.

12th June 1830 Perry's Gazette, London p.379/380 [Manchester addresses here]
BOOTHROYD Joshua, of Almondbury, and of the Royal Oak Inn and Thatched House Tavern, Market Street, Manchester, commission agent. 

1846 Insolvent Petitioners. John Boothroyd, Honley, Yorkshire, waistcoat manufacturer.

Mark