SUTTON-COLLARD/PAY Kent, England

[jam_6377]

Perhaps a flight of fancy on my part...but I have been long searching for the roots of my Great Grandmother, Fanny COLLARD MUTTON, born in 1859, in the Pastry Union Workhouse. She has an older Brother, who went by the name Henry PAY, born in Folly, Folkestone, a couple of years earlier. Henry's marriage cert lists father as Thomas SUTTON; Fanny's says Thomas COLLARD. Now I don't think that's right because her mother was legally Emma COLLARD (aka Emma PAY), and Emma's mother was Elizabeth COLLARD PAY. Too many Collards for Thomas to be a COLLARD, too I think. BUT...here's the flight of fancy. My Mom's cousin, who knew Fanny, told me that her first love died in a boating or lifeboat accident...then she went on to marry John Thomas MUTTON. But - we all know these sort of stories can be off by a generation or two, if they are even true....so... what if Fanny's father was also Thomas SUTTON and that was her mother's first love (Emma did eventually marry Robert BROCKMAN in Maidstone).
So how in the world do I try to track this flight of fancy down? Is there any way to figure this out? When I search Ancestry for Thomas SUTTON, there are a huge number of them listed and no way to differentiate the one I hope to find.
Any help is appreciated.

[jam_6377]

I have a typo in my original post - should have been Margate, not Maidstone.
The BROCKMANs ran the Northern Bell Inn in Margate.

[avm228]

Welcome to Rootschat 

Has a birth registration been found for Henry?

[jam_6377]

Yes, I have his Birth certificate. It clearly reads "Thomas Sutton" in the father space.
But, I mis-spoke...his marriage says his father was Thomas PAY, who was actually his Grandfather.

So - perhaps a follow up question would be.... what's the likelihood that both siblings, Fanny and Henry would have registrar errors on their marriage certificates?

But both list their father as Thomas, and the surname matches their own surnames in use by them at that time.

[avm228]

It’s not a registrar error on the marriages - it correctly reflects what the relevant bride or groom told the minister/registrar at the time of the marriage.

It is hugely common to find people born out of wedlock inventing a father’s name on their wedding day to save their blushes. The chosen name is often that of a stepfather, uncle or grandfather involved in their upbringing.

“Thomas Sutton” is more interesting as that reflects information given by Emma (if she was the informant) at the time of Henry’s birth registration, and may lead you to his true paternity if you are lucky.

[avm228]

Please can you give the birthdate and particulars from Henry’s birth certificate, which I not easily able to find in the index - unless perhaps it is this one: Henry SUTTON, no mother’s maiden name, Sep qtr 1855 Elham.

What is the stated occupation of the supposed father Thomas Sutton?  Is Emma recorded as Emma Sutton (as though she was married to Thomas)?

[jam_6377]

Henry PAY - m. 4 MAR 1877 to Catherine HORTON
   father=Thomas PAY, Labourer
   Henry's profession= Stone Mason

His birth: Henry PAY born 13 JUL 1835, Folly, Folkestone Town...
   father= Thomas SUTTON, laborer
   mother=Emma PAY (though legally she should have been Emma COLLARD as she was born out-of-==wedlock to Elizabeth COLLARD who later married Thomas PAY.
   Emma is listed as informant - Mother, Folly, Folkestone.

Emma variously appears as either Emma COLLARD or Emma PAY until she marries Robert BROCKMAN of Margate - where she worked in the Northern Bell Inn for  a guy whose Surname is MONDAY....Monday sold the in to Robert BROCKMAN.
She appears in the records of the Eastry Union Workhouse as both, too.

[avm228]

His birth: Henry PAY born 13 JUL 1835, Folly, Folkestone Town...
   father= Thomas SUTTON, laborer
   mother=Emma PAY (though legally she should have been Emma COLLARD as she was born out-of-==wedlock to Elizabeth COLLARD who later married Thomas PAY.
   Emma is listed as informant - Mother, Folly, Folkestone.

The date was 1855, I think?

There’s no legal requirement in England to use the name you’re born with or any particular name - she was fine to use Pay or Collard or any other name if she wanted, so long as she wasn’t trying to deceive anyone. Lots of stepchildren would have used their stepfather’s surname either solely or interchangeably with their birth name, as Emma seems to have done.

[jam_6377]

Thanks for that name info.