Looking for info: Janet Orr 19/10/1815 Ayr and Frederick Mcpherson (writer)

[Alan of Kaslo]

Greetings

New member here. I live in Canada but both my parents are from Scotland. I have traced some of my family tree to Ayrshire. Such an interesting part of Scotland to explore which had been off my radar! I'm here hoping to learn more about my family and their surroundings and hopefully share some info I have collected.

My great grandmother was born in St. Quivox in 1858. Her grandmother is Janet Orr born  19/10/1815  in Ayr. Her parents are Jennet Stewart 11/03/1777 Maybole and John Orr 10/11/1776 Weaver in Ayr.

I've got her birth cert from 1815 and I know she later had a child named Frederick Mcpherson with a man of the same name, child born 08/07/1834 in Ayr. It said he was a writer of Edinburgh (working at rather then born in). I search and searched and couldn't find anything until I found a Frederick Mcpherson ESQ W.S in 1837 Pigot Guide Edinburgh. That lead me to the possibility that Frederick Adolphus Mcpherson ESQ mentioned elesewhere was one in the same.

 What I don't know is if Janet Orr and Frederick Mcpherson were married. I could find no wedding despite exhaustive searching.Or a wedding to her and anyone else that I could find. Also I could not find a death cert for Janet Orr. I looked and looked....

I know through research and documents who Janet Orr's parents are as stated above and also who their parents are as well but know very little beyond birth about Janet Orr...besides giving birth to my g-grandfather.

I know the younger Frederick Mcpherson lived with his grandparents at some point according to 1851 census in Scotland. I can't find any reference to Janet Orr living with either Frederick at any time. On a different site a poster made reference to a Frederick Adolphus Mcpherson who had married a Matilda Ford and then moved to Australia ....and he had previously had a child with Janet Orr (they used the term married).

Anyhow I was just putting it out here as a starting point if anyone out there had any insights into Janet Orr and the man she had a child with Frederick Mcpherson/Macpherson , writer (likely from England). I have seen a rundown of Frederick Adolphus Macpherson and his father Major Alexander Macpherson, but I am yet to positively connect any particular Frederick Mcpherson to Janet Orr. 

So again , hello from BC Canada.

Glad I made it. Hope someone might have a clue or two

Alan

[chempat]

Welcome to rootschat, Alan.

Have you got any of the family in the 1841 census, and could you reference the 1851 census etc for where you have found them etc (saves us duplicating your work).

You might consider asking a moderator to move this post to the Ayrshire boards, because Scottish records are very different from English ones and access to census images is through scotlandspeople not subscription sites.  Marriage rules were different in Scotland. Also, strictly speaking, have you got an 1815 birth certificate, or a parish record of baptism/christening?

Thanks,

Pat

Added:
Frederick McPherson is fairly obvious from 1851 censuses and baptism record.  Have you found grandparents in 1841?

Cannot see any other McPherson/Orr children.

[chempat]

Grandparents in 1841 in Mill Street, Ayr, just for elimination
John Orr   65  cotton H L W
Janet Orr   65
Agnes Orr   15
John Anderson   10

[Neale1961]

There is a marriage in 1836 for Janet Orr and James McPherson. Don’t know if this is yours.
How certain are you of birth date and names of parents? Do you have death certificate giving parents names?

[Alan of Kaslo]

I made my first post in beginners here because it looked like the best place to say hello. As far as Janet Orr goes she was born in Ayrshire. Frederick Mcpherson was born in England I believe. There was one born in Edinburgh even but he would be all of 17 by the time of the birth and it already said writer as occupation. I take that to mean esquire or lawyer... It's possible they married in England and that is why i can't find a wedding but like I said I have no reference to one anywhere.

1841 census surprisingly came up blank for what I would have expected to be at least mother and child age 7. Frederick is a bit of an uncommon name coupled with Mcpherson and easy to spot but I could find none. Not until he was a teen in 1851 living at the grandparents. I did check Scottish , English, Irish census etc .... under Janet Orr , Janet Mcpherson (under all the spelling combos) and nothing.

Searched google for months in every configuration I could. Only break came when a site mentioned Frederick Adolphus as the Frederick Mcpherson but did not mention Janet Orr. It only mentions a different woman Frederick Adolphus Mcpherson married in 1834 (same year Frederick Mcpherson the child was born). In the comments a persons states they are related to Frederick Mcpherson through his first marriage to Janet Orr. The forum shut down and I was unable to message the person to ask the details. Now I am not sure if they had the child Frederick out of wedlock or if they did marry and perhaps she died in child birth.

Still piecing it all together

[Alan of Kaslo]

I did see that one marriage of james mcpherson to a Janet Orr and even purchased the doc (as I have done way to many!) ...but it is not them.

Also regarding the 1841 census it looks like different grandchildren lived there at that time. I can't find Janet Orr (1815) in any 1841 census ...

[chempat]

Frederick McPherson is in a lot of trees on Ancestry, including private ones.  Have you contacted the tree owners.

'Marriage' in Scotland is different.

[Alan of Kaslo]

I have been. No luck yet as many people had no clue and just added them as they found. All that I have found have wrong or different information then I have in front of me. With the exception of Janet Orr's marriage (if there is one) and her death , I have every official birth/marriage/death for everyone up to and even after Janet Orr. Also no birth cert for Frederick Adolphus even though there is a page dedicated to everything from his marriage in 1834 to Matilda Ford to the fact that his father is Major Alexander Macpherson. They never mention who is mother is and they never say where and when he was born. When you look there is one reference to a Frederick Adolphus Mcpherson born in England 1813 but it is not to a Alexander Mcpherson and it's from the LDS site and its someones personal tree info.

I have looked into so many trees with the exact info as the people above and the info they list does not jive with the actual documents I have right in front of me. In one case it said Janet Stewart 1777 died in Australia ....I get the document and she died in Ayrshire. That has happened countless times.

I do keep trying to contact people though.

[chempat]

Yes, I agree.  I was trying to check out some of those trees, and most have Janet's birth year wrong when I look at James's tree, no 1841, no deaths etc.

There is always the possibility that Janet/Jane/Jean is dead by 1841, but Frederick has got to be somewhere.