Illegitimate great grandfather Glover/Clark?

[Sunnycj]

Hi all, first time posting here, I've been having trouble tracing my family line, I'm looking for my great grandfather Alexander Clark Glover born in 1879 in Buckie in Banffshire and died in 1963 in Edinburgh

Now this is where it gets difficult, in his marriages and death certificate he is named Alexander Clark Glover with the father named James Glover who was a diamond cutter and his Mother's maiden name was Mary M'Lean or Mclean?

But in his Death certificate in brackets he is 'Formally  Alexander Clark' and his mother is named Mary Clark instead of McLean.

Now I've maybe found an 1881 census where he is three years old with his grandmother 'Jessie Mclean'

And in a 1891 census I've possibly found him on the HMS 'Mars' training ship docked at the river tay, it says he's from Buckie but I can't prove its him,

Now I've just recently found a Birth Certificate of an Alexander Clark from Rathven in Buckie born illegitimate to a Helen Clark and her mother is marked with an X

I need help proving that this Alexander Clark is my great grandfather and answer the question of why his mother has different surnames.

Any help would be appreciated I'm at my Witt's end

[Forfarian]

in his marriages and death certificate he is named Alexander Clark Glover with the father named James Glover who was a diamond cutter and his Mother's maiden name was Mary M'Lean or Mclean?

It's quite common for an illegitimate child to use his or her father's surname, but the father can only be named on the birth certificate if he accompanies the mother when she goes to register the birth, and signs the certificate at the same time as she does.

But in his Death certificate in brackets he is 'Formally  Alexander Clark' and his mother is named Mary Clark instead of McLean.

Are you sure it's 'formally' rather than 'formerly'?

And in a 1891 census I've possibly found him on the HMS 'Mars' training ship docked at the river tay, it says he's from Buckie but I can't prove its him

The admission registers for the 'Mars' Training Ship are extant and, I believe, held by Dundee City Archives. https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/service-area/corporate-services/democratic-and-legal-services/archives/our-records

Now I've just recently found a Birth Certificate of an Alexander Clark from Rathven in Buckie born illegitimate to a Helen Clark and her mother is marked with an X

Do you mean that instead of signing her name she just wrote 'X' and this signature was witnessed by someone else?

I need help proving that this Alexander Clark is my great grandfather and answer the question of why his mother has different surnames.

If his mother was born Clark and later married a Mr McLean, or vice versa, she would have had two surnames. In Scotland, women don't lose their maiden surnames on marriage, and they are indexed in the death records by both surnames (and if they are married more than once, they should be indexed by all their husbands' surnames).

Incidentally Rathven is not 'in' Buckie. It's the other way round. The town of Buckie is in the parish of Rathven, and the village of Rathven is next to, but distinct from, Buckie. Births in Buckie would be registered in the registration district of Rathven because the registration districts (except in the cities) were initially the same as the parishes.

Can you post extracts from his marriage and death certificates so that we can see exactly how his mother's name is recorded on both certificates?

BTW I see that in the 1901 census he was aged 22, and a railway shunter. If he was 22, and if his age is accurate, he would have been born between about April 1878 and March 1879. When he died in 1963, his age was recorded as 84. This also suggests a birth in either 1878 or 1879, depending on the date of death.

The staff records of some railway companies have survived and can help to piece together a story. I have never attempted this, but I know that there is a book about researching railway workers. See http://www.sog.org.uk/books-courses/books-publications/my-ancestor-was-a-railway-worker

[Forfarian]

I see from the 1881 census (FindMyPast transcription) that Jessie McLean was aged 59, unmarried and born in Forres.

From the deaths index at Scotland's People she died in Rathven in 1897 aged 76. You might like to look that up and find out who her parents were and also who registered the death.

As she was unmarried it may be that her daughter was also the daughter of someone named Clark, which would explain Alexander's mother having two surnames.

In 1891 Jessie was in the census at East Church Street in Buckie, aged 69, born in Forres, and described as a pauper. Unfortunately the Poor Law records for Rathven have not survived. If they had, they might have answered all your questions

However someone placed an announcement of her death in the Banffshire Advertiser and Banffshire Herald. This won't tell you anything more of significance, however.

[Annette7]

There is another Alexander Clark born in Buckie which I think is probably your guy.

Alexander Clark (illegitimate), born 7th August 1878 at Colonsay (?) Place, Buckie, son of Mary Clark, domestic servant.   She registered the birth and signed.

Bearing in mind what was on his death certificate, that we know he was bc.1878/9, I would say this is your Alexander's birth certificate (not the one born the following year with a mother named Helen).

Annette   

[Sunnycj]

Hello Annette

This sounds more likely him hopefully, you wouldn't happen to know the birth certificate reference number would you? Is the certificate on the Scotland's people website?

Connor

[Forfarian]

This sounds more likely him hopefully, you wouldn't happen to know the birth certificate reference number would you? Is the certificate on the Scotland's people website?

All Scottish birth, marriage and death certificates before the online cutoff dates are on the Scotland's People web site.

The one you want is
CLARK ALEXANDER M 1878 164/ 156 Rathven

[MonicaL]

Reputed father, James Gorman, a diamond cutter by trade, is a little illusive in records isn't he 

To confirm that the earlier 1881 census entry you found for Alexander with Jessie McLean, would be good to find her earlier to see whether she had a daughter Mary (who could show as McLean or Clark in records as Forfarian mentions above). This would help you in trying to search for Mary in the censuses (having a better feel on her birth year and place of birth).

Alexander may not have had any contact with his mother Mary in future years. She shows as still alive at the time of his 2nd marriage in 1930 doesn't she? James Glover shows as deceased from Alexander's 1900 marriage registration. I am referencing these dates from the certificates you have added to your tree on Ancestry, Connor.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Connor, again from your notes on your tree...

Why do you think that the 22 yr old Catherine Bruce born Edinburgh and showing with the family in 1911 could be Alexander's sister?

Monica

PS: Always good to see family trees which include original certificates   

[Sunnycj]

Thank you, i haven't had much to go on so I've been having to get the documents as I went, in the census that she is in I thought it said 'Br' which I read meant brother or maybe it meant boarder?

Connor