Author Topic: County of York to Yorkshire?  (Read 1635 times)

Offline karen58

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County of York to Yorkshire?
« on: Tuesday 11 February 20 05:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi

When did the County of York change to Yorkshire?

Have searched on the internet but must sites say 'Yorkshire, formally known as the County of York'.

Thanks Karen
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 11 February 20 08:24 GMT (UK) »
It didn't the County of York the ancient term denoting the whole county.
Yorkshire is simply the administrative term introduced to England as a result of the Norman Conquest in 1066, neither term replaces the other.

The shire part denotes it is a district under a governor, Yorkshire like Lincolnshire is divided into three parts or ridings for administration purposes. Yorkshire – North Riding of Yorkshire, West  Riding of Yorkshire (the Ainsty of York being part of the West Riding), East Riding of Yorkshire (note there is no South Riding of Yorkshire). Lincolnshire -  Lindsey in the north (also subdivided into three), Kesteven in the south-west and Holland in the south-east.
Cheers
Guy
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Offline karen58

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 11 February 20 22:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guy, Thank you.

But I still don't understand what the County of York was or why the old wills (before 1858) stated 'Saddleworth in the County of York' and other documents say 'Saddleworth in the West Riding of Yorkshire'.
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Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 12 February 20 07:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guy, Thank you.

But I still don't understand what the County of York was or why the old wills (before 1858) stated 'Saddleworth in the County of York' and other documents say 'Saddleworth in the West Riding of Yorkshire'.

The wills were church records with God being in charge the other records were possibly records required under an Act of Parliament, i.e. civil records with government officials in charge.
Cheers
Guy
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http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline karen58

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 12 February 20 09:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Guy
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Winterbottoms; Saddleworth and Huddersfield
Pitchforths; Halifax and Huddersfield

Offline majm

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 12 February 20 11:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi

When did the County of York change to Yorkshire?

Have searched on the internet but must sites say 'Yorkshire, formally known as the County of York'.

Thanks Karen

Is it possible that there is some confusion between the word 'formally' and the word 'formerly'? 

I am in New South Wales, Australia and here 'formally' to me is indicating that Yorkshire was and still is the Informal name and that the Formal name was and is County of York  versus 'formerly' which would be seeking out a previous name that is no longer in current use.

So New South Wales was once a British Colony, so it was formerly a British Colony.   Australia is formally known as the Federation of the Commonwealth of Australia, informally referred to as Australia.   It was formerly six British Colonies and those colonies were federated into one British Colony of six states by the legal instruments signed off formally by Queen Victoria in 1900.

JM
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Offline karen58

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 12 February 20 22:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi majm
Good to meet a fellow Australian on Roots Chat, I'm from Brisbane. It has been raining here for more than 3 weeks. Has Sydney been the same. Typical Australian weather; Dought, bush fires and flooding rain.

You make an interesting point, but I think it is just misleading info on Wikipedia. On this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkshire Wikipedia states 'Yorkshire (/ˈjɔːrkʃər, -ʃɪər/; abbreviated Yorks), formally known as the County of York.

This is what I understand of the situation.

Yorkshire has been know as Yorkshire since just after the Norman invasion, about 1000 years.

Untill 1974, it was made-up of three Ridings, each being an administrative county, plus a 4th county - The County of York.

The County of York was also the City of York and I think it was the administrative capital of Yorkshire. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/yorks/city-of-york

The City of York is no longer a separate county but is within North Yorkshire, but I don't know if that happened in 1974.

Until 1858, wills and probates were administrated by the bishops in the relevant Diocese of the testator in the probate court of the relevant Archdiocese.  So they were episcopal records and the government didn't have much to do with the administration of probates. Wills and probates were held by the church and stored at the relevant Archdiocese.

I have pre-1858 wills from Saddleworth and Halifax which were both parishes in the West Riding of Yorkshire. These were were administered, respectively, by the Archdiocese of Chester and the Archdiocese of Pontefract.

The wills range between the years 1676 and 1806.

My confusion is:

All the testators start their wills with the declaration:

'I 'Joe Bloggs' Yeoman of Saddleworth/Halifax in the County of York do...'

So my question is, why do they say the County of York rather than Yorkshire.



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Offline Kiltpin

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 February 20 22:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi

When did the County of York change to Yorkshire?

Have searched on the internet but must sites say 'Yorkshire, formally known as the County of York'.

Thanks Karen

Is it possible that there is some confusion between the word 'formally' and the word 'formerly'? 

I am in New South Wales, Australia and here 'formally' to me is indicating that Yorkshire was and still is the Informal name and that the Formal name was and is County of York  versus 'formerly' which would be seeking out a previous name that is no longer in current use.

So New South Wales was once a British Colony, so it was formerly a British Colony.   Australia is formally known as the Federation of the Commonwealth of Australia, informally referred to as Australia.   It was formerly six British Colonies and those colonies were federated into one British Colony of six states by the legal instruments signed off formally by Queen Victoria in 1900.

JM
 

That makes sense, JM. In fact it is the only answer that does make sense. 

Regards 

Chas
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Offline majm

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Re: County of York to Yorkshire?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 12 February 20 23:13 GMT (UK) »
 :)
Brisbane... That would be the capital of Queensland.
Sydney ... That would be the capital of New South Wales.

I do not live in Sydney,  but I can certainly confirm  that many districts across the entire continent and all our states and territories continue to experience extreme weather .... droughts, bush fires, flooding rains, heat waves, dust storms, .... but ...


So, back to topic, it seems to me that  the word FORMALLY is the clue re County of York v Yorkshire. 

Queensland was formerly part of New South Wales, and was formally hived off in 1859.

 ;D
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