Help needed please – THOMAS family, Oldbury, Worcestershire pre 1891

[Delapre-Ron]

I have a long-standing Brick-Wall that is hiding my maternal Grandmother’s family.
Grandmother – Mary/Maria THOMAS (abt 1888 -1957)
Her parents were – Joseph THOMAS (1850-1909) and Elizabeth (Thomas) (1850-1922)
1891 census name as Maria – age 3: place of birth West Bromwich, Staffordshire
1901 census name Mary – age 13: place of birth Oldbury, Worcestershire
1911 – possibly in service – could be anywhere
1911 Marriage certificate – St Saviours church, Saltley to Albert Varney
        her age listed as 26 – Father Joseph Thomas (deceased – Brick Burner)
1939 register – age 54 – dob 6 Mar 1886

Mary had 4 traced and documented siblings – Hannah THOMAS (1873-1946), Elizabeth THOMAS (1882-?), John THOMAS (1886-?) and William THOMAS (1888 -?)

I have been unable to trace any details for any of Mary’s family prior to the 1891 census, no birth or marriages records.  Her mother, Elizabeth (Thomas) is listed in 1911 census as having been married for 40 years and having given birth to 17 children – 5 of which still living (listed above)

Elizabeth (Thomas) is definitely not the Elizabeth TINSLEY (b 1850) married to a Joseph THOMAS (hollowware moulder).

Any thoughts or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Delapre-Ron

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
I did wonder about this in 1881
Canalside Halesowen St Oldbury
Ellen Carter 77 widow mother Oldbury
Elizabeth Rollason 37 wife brickmaker Oldbury
Mary 13
Hannah 9
Ellen 3
Richard 6 months

Could Elizabeth have been a widow and they married latter?

Ciderdrinker

[Delapre-Ron]

Hi,
Thanks for your time and effort looking at this but - Elizabeth Rollason and matching family are in the 1891 census, still at the same address.
Thanks, Ron

[Milliepede]

It's a real head scratcher isn't it    as to where they were before 1891. 

Can only think a change of surname took place 

There is a Joseph and Elizabeth Bullock born Oldbury with a daughter Hannah the right age in 1881 but can't trace them properly to see if by chance they became Thomas or why.

[Milliepede]

Have you tried looking for the same address in 1881 (where they were living in 1891) to see who was there - long shot as people moved about a lot.

[MaureeninNY]

Hi Ron and welcome to RootsChat.

I think I've become fixated on the BULLOCK family on the 1881 census:
2840 /62/14
Joseph and Elizabeth with children John,Hannah and Rebecca.


Births GRO:

BULLOCK, HANNAH      mmn   BARNSLEY   
 1875  S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH  Volume 06B  Page 771 

BULLOCK, ELIZABETH    mmn     BARNSLEY   
 1882  J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH  Volume 06B  Page 813
  BULLOCK, ELIZABETH  HARRIETT   mmn    BARNSLEY   
1880  D Quarter in WEST BROMWICH  Volume 06B  Page 718 
(no idea on the 2 Eliz* above)

BULLOCK, WILLIAM      mmn   BARNSLEY   
 1886  S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH  Volume 06B  Page 817 

BULLOCK, MARY   mmn      BARNSLEY   
 1888  J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH  Volume 06B  Page 812 

Just a thought!

Maureen
EDIT: Oh gosh- Milliepede. I take forever to do this but I do think we're on the right track.

[osprey]

birth reg for son John looks to be John Barnsley dec qtr 1870 West Brom vol 6b pg 570 no mmn. 1871 the couple are living with the Barnsley family in Hobiscus Lane RG10/2977 folio 74 pg 6, John Bullock shown as 5 months. Haven't found a marriage as yet.

1901 for Thomas family has a son Thomas aged 1
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS75-CJ7
In 1911 he's Thomas Knight
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWWC-GG7
Thomas was registered with surname Thomas no mmn, Hannah Elizabeth as Knight mmn Thomas but haven't found a marriage for Hannah or for Elizabeth. I was hoping one of them might have used Bullock but just not finding suitable records to confirm a link.

 

[Milliepede]

Lost track a bit now as had to go out but there was a marriage in Dec 1870 Stourbridge with
Joseph Bullock
Elizabeth Barnsley
that would tie in with 40 years married in 1911 - if she is Elizabeth Thomas.

1871 as mentioned by osprey
Joseph Bullock 21 brickmaker
Elizabeth Bullock 24
John Bullock 5 months

1881 as mentioned by Maureen
Joseph Bullock 32 general labourer
Elizabeth 34
John 10
Hannah 5
Rebecca 2

1871 living with the Barnsley family including parents Richard & Hannah

[Milliepede]

I wonder if there are any newspaper reports, criminal or otherwise, about Joseph Bullock 1881-1891 that would lead to a change of name 

If I recall daughters married saying Joseph Thomas father deceased brickburner.

Has to be the same tangled family doesn't it with the birthplace being Oldbury?