Memorial Inscription Conundrum

[DonM]

I have seen a lot of stones but this one has got me.
 
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/154479490/agness-ralston#view-photo=131101083

Erected by John Ralston in the memory of his Father and Son who died 17 July 1804 its all a son can doo
Robert Ralston died 9 Oct 1853 aged 57 years (cir 1896)
Agnes Ferguson his wife died  20 Jan 1871 Aged 73 years (cir 1798)

The author (John) is a son of Robert and Agnes they married 1828 in Dalziel. So who the heck is referring to in the first line 1804.  Would it be his father's, father aka grandfather?

Don

[sonofthom]

Very puzzling indeed! Could the John Ralston who erected the stone be an earlier John Ralston, probably the father of Robert Ralston? If so he has, rather oddly, not named his father and son and the lair has subsequently been used for other family members. I know it would be unusual but is there any inscription on the other side of the stone?

[Lodger]

I remember this stone from when I transcribed the MIs in this burial ground in 1982. My opinion then was that they had both died on the same day, looking at it again, I am still of the same opinion. There is no knowing what the circumstances were, the child may have been an infant or, like the two little Ralston brothers remembered on the next stone to this (on the same plot) it may have been a tragic accident, a drowning like the boys or a fire perhaps?

The last recorded interments in the plot with the stone shown in the photograph here were -
John Ralston aged 2 years, interred on 1st May 1903 at a depth of 5 feet.
Margaret Ralston aged 9 months, interred at a depth of 5 feet on 31st March 1915.
In the next plot, the final interment is -
Archibald Ralston aged 55 years, interred at a depth of 4 feet on 2nd December 1935.
A note has been added that the lairs are now full and the "Next interment to be in the bottom lair with the head the opposite way".
Both plots were originally owned by John Ralston and later transferred to Archibald Ralston.

[Josephine]

The inscription says, "its all a Father all a Son can doo."

So the person erecting the stone was both father and son, which aligns with the earlier part of the inscription.

Regards,
Josephine

[DonM]

John Ralston who erected the stone lists his parents are at the bottom.

Lodger are you thinking this is John's brother?  But John's parents never married until 21 Dec 1828.

Yes very sad about John's two sons John and David.  Five in total went through the ice that day on the Coursington Pond. A passing miner named John Murdoch managed to snag two but couldn't get the Ralston boys and young Robert Ross out in time.  Was nice of John to include young Ross on the memorial.  The complete story is in the 30 Jan 1875 edition of the Wishaw Advertiser. 

And, thanks for internments and SP says Archibald died 29 Nov 1925.

Josephine, the date 1804 date doesn't fit with his parents marriage or death unless its his father's brother or possibly grandfather. 

Don

[Forfarian]

On the stone, there is a comma after the word Father, which suggests to me that it was only the son who died in 1804.

[DonM]

Ah yes Forfarian but whose son.

Robert was b circa 1796 (nothing in the OPR's) so he is definitely not the son of Robert perhaps a brother of his father? 

Don

[Josephine]

Wow, it's very confusing, indeed.

The lettering at the top is different from the lettering at the bottom. I would guess it was done circa the 1804 date but I'm not an expert in these matters.

If I were tasked with figuring this out, my guess would be that the John mentioned at the top can't have been the son of the couple at the bottom.

Please let us know if/when you figure it out.

Regards,
Josephine

[DonM]

Yes but I'm afraid it will have to wait until we return to Scotland in May.  Perhaps the kirk minutes might help shed some light.

Don