Author Topic: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle  (Read 1587 times)

Offline c-side

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 19 February 20 18:04 GMT (UK) »
I checked out the index of items held relating to the Wellesley school.  Lots of financial stuff and loads too recent to be available to the public but the registers held are -

NRO 7146/3/1  1888 - 1921  Register of Boys at Greens Home Industrial School, South Shields ( a branch of HMS Wellesley) for boys up to age 12 .  After that they would be transferred to Wellesley for training in seamanship.
The register contains - name, age, date of admission, home town, charge, term at the school, date of discharge, the Board of Guardians to be charged for maintenance and who ordered the admission

NRO 7146/3/2   1868 - 1939  Register of boys at HMS Wellesley
The register contains - name, age, date of admission, home town, charge, term at the school, date of discharge, the Board of Guardians to be charged for maintenance and who ordered the admission


I didn’t look at the registers because it seems to me from the content that the entries would all relate to boys with some kind of ‘criminal’ record and this would not apply to a lad from an orphanage but I’m happy to look next week if you think it would be worth it.

Christine

Offline Chris Frater

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 19 February 20 23:43 GMT (UK) »
NRO 7146/3/1  1888 - 1921  Register of Boys at Greens Home Industrial School, South Shields ( a branch of HMS Wellesley) for boys up to age 12 .  After that they would be transferred to Wellesley for training in seamanship.
The register contains - name, age, date of admission, home town, charge, term at the school, date of discharge, the Board of Guardians to be charged for maintenance and who ordered the admission

First off thank you so much for  having a look, The above might be a worth looking at but don't go to much trouble, It would be  like a needle in a hay stack.... I was only guessing a nautical ship because of him being a Merchant Seaman later.
He could of been put anywhere and most likely  the two older kids and the younger one also, I dont know if they would of tried to keep them all together or not, The older ones was probably older enough to go out in the world on their own.

Thanking You Christine
UK, Scotland and Australia: <br />Surnames: Card : Frater : McKillop-Davies : Gurr : Williams : Russell : Davies : Pitt/Pitts : Sutton: McKillop: Pickering: Limburner: Jackson: Brown: Glover: Wright: Rapley

Offline c-side

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 20 February 20 20:40 GMT (UK) »
I don't think it would be too difficult to look at the register as we are only looking at a short space of time.  He wouldn't be there before he was orphaned in 1913 and he would have left Green's at the age of 12 in 1916 - so only 3 or 4 years.  It's worth a try

Christine


Offline Chris Frater

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 20 February 20 23:17 GMT (UK) »
Thank You Christine

Warmest Regards
Chris
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Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 26 February 20 15:21 GMT (UK) »
I have found that a John, Fred 'Archbold' and Florence Frater were admitted to the Newcastle Workhouse.  The other children you have mentioned are not there. This is the information from the Creed Registers - I will give the references:

HO.NGH/88/1:  1 Oct 1912 - 25 Oct 13

Admitted on 10.1.13
Frater, John,    1902
Frater, Fred Archbold ,   1904
Frater, Florence    1906

The years are under the heading of 'From whence admitted' but I think these may be their dates of birth.  They were all E.C. religion. 
Name of Informant:
Grandfather. John Cowe, Stations Cottage, Berwick on Tweed

It looks like Fred was discharged on 3.2.13. 

In the next register HO.NGH/88/2: 25 Oct 1913 - 25 Oct 1916 ...

John and Florence listed as 'Orphan' in John's line and are both still in the workhouse.  Grandfather & same address as above listed  again as their relative.  John and Florence were discharged on 28.3.14
There is a very small entry besides the entries for John and Florence but does not give a date which reads:
'1 hr Fred A in house'
Unfortunately, the Creed registers give no indication where the children went.  As Fred is only down for having been in for one hour I wonder if he may have been immediately sent or taken elsewhere?
Possibly to the Wellesley?  I wonder what Christine might find?  I can tell you that he did not go to the Axwell Park school - I have checked and could not find him there.

This is the Elswick Cemetery burial entry for Eleanor:

Entry 44266
Eleanor Frater
Female
Age 42
53 Tulloch Street
Buried January 4 1913
Ceremony by Thos. Mitchell
Buried Section Y Grave No 740
Removed from St Stephen's parish

Newcastle Evening Chronicle death notice - Friday, January 3 1913:

'FRATER.- At 53, Tulloch Street, December 31, Eleanor, widow of the late Archibold Frater.  To be interred Elswick Cemetery, on Saturday, 2.30 prompt.  Friends please accept this the only intimation.'

This is a map of the Elswick Cemetery.  Click on thumbnail image to enlarge:

http://www.margaret-hall-genealogy.com/page8.htm
 

Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline c-side

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 26 February 20 18:46 GMT (UK) »
Christine didn't find anything, unfortunately, but as I said before the records at the archives seem to be purely in relation to the 'naughty' boys rather than those referred from workhouses/orphanages.

According to Peter Higginbottom's Children's Homes website there are records at TWAS so it could be back to you, RTL  :D

http://childrenshomes.org.uk/TSWellesley/

Christine

Offline Chris Frater

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 26 February 20 22:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanking you both so very much.... Even this is much more then I thought would be found.

Yes John, Fred and Florence would of been the  youngest of the children the other where probably old enough to be working yes RTL that is there birth years.

Possibly Grandfather John Cowe may of looked after him? Funny that he was only there for an hour  and looks like the other two after 12 months. Perhaps one of the older sister or brother took them.
I sometimes wish we had a time machine to go back in time :)

Thanking You all so very much for the time that you have taken to check all this out for me, very much appreciated.

Warmest regards
Chris
UK, Scotland and Australia: <br />Surnames: Card : Frater : McKillop-Davies : Gurr : Williams : Russell : Davies : Pitt/Pitts : Sutton: McKillop: Pickering: Limburner: Jackson: Brown: Glover: Wright: Rapley

Offline River Tyne Lass

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 27 February 20 09:19 GMT (UK) »
You are welcome Chris. Thanks to you Christine for checking in Northumberland. :)

I have checked the on-line cataligue and can see items for the Wellesley but unfortunately I can't see anything relating to admissions.  If I am incorrect I hope someone will let me know.  That is strange that at one point he was only in for an hour.  I still wonder if at some point he may have been with the Wellesley, even though nothing has been found to support this so far.

Yes, I too have often wished there was a time machine so we could go back for answers! ;D
Conroy, Fitzpatrick, Watson, Miller, Davis/Davies, Brown, Senior, Dodds, Grieveson, Gamesby, Simpson, Rose, Gilboy, Malloy, Dalton, Young, Saint, Anderson, Allen, McKetterick, McCabe, Drummond, Parkinson, Armstrong, McCarroll, Innes, Marshall, Atkinson, Glendinning, Fenwick, Bonner

Offline Chris Frater

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Re: Orphanage is 1913 Newcastle
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 27 February 20 09:30 GMT (UK) »
River Tyne Lass...

You said looks like Fred was discharged on 3/2/1913..... Perhaps the Hours  stated on the others records means that Fred visited the other two  for a hour?

Chris
UK, Scotland and Australia: <br />Surnames: Card : Frater : McKillop-Davies : Gurr : Williams : Russell : Davies : Pitt/Pitts : Sutton: McKillop: Pickering: Limburner: Jackson: Brown: Glover: Wright: Rapley