Author Topic: Heraldic Interpretation  (Read 6008 times)

Offline Cornelius88

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Heraldic Interpretation
« on: Wednesday 19 February 20 19:23 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if someone would mind interpreting the heraldic devices on this photograph. 

The alabaster plaque is circa 1385 and is of Godfrey Foljambe and (I believe) his wife Avena.   

Other documents have her as the daughter and heiress of Sir Thomas Ireland who married one of the de Vilers of Nottinghamshire, but I have no supporting information other than an old pedigree which may be totally wrong.  I'm hoping to gain some clues from the armorials.

Offline Lily M

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 19 February 20 19:42 GMT (UK) »
Just from looking up the coat of arms of Sir Thomas Ireland, I see he has the same five fleur-dis-lis design.

But I got this information from googling, and have no idea how accurate it is.

Online KGarrad

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 19 February 20 20:46 GMT (UK) »
From Burkes General Armoury:
Foljambe: sable a bend between six escallops or.
Granted by Henry VIII. to Sir Godfrey Foljambe.

Irland, or Irrland (Thomas Irland, of Albrighton, co.
Salop, High Sheriff of that co. 1032; ninth in descent from
Robert Irrland, of Oswaldstrye, 1362).
Gules six fleurs-de-lis arranged three, two, one.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Online KGarrad

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 19 February 20 21:22 GMT (UK) »
The mural alabaster is mentioned, and pictured on the Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_de_Foljambe
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Online KGarrad

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 19 February 20 21:37 GMT (UK) »
Avena is mentioned on Geni.com:
https://www.geni.com/people/Avena-Foljambe/6000000002930958913

Daughter of Sir Thomas Ireland, Kt., of Hartshorne and Avena Ireland
Wife of Richard de Greene, knight and Sir Godfrey Foljambe, Kt.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline Cornelius88

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 20 February 20 09:08 GMT (UK) »
From Burkes General Armoury:
Foljambe: sable a bend between six escallops or.
Granted by Henry VIII. to Sir Godfrey Foljambe.

Irland, or Irrland (Thomas Irland, of Albrighton, co.
Salop, High Sheriff of that co. 1032; ninth in descent from
Robert Irrland, of Oswaldstrye, 1362).
Gules six fleurs-de-lis arranged three, two, one.
Thank you!!!  I tried Burke's Armorial but utterly failed to find it, so I'm guessing my search techniques need some serious attention.....  I tried a search for 'fleur de lis' but for some reason that failed to find anything at all, when it should have found multiple variations.  Or at least I would have thought so.

The armorials do suggest a connection between the Avena on the memorial and Thomas Ireland.  The problem is that Avena can result in multiple variations in transcription: ‘v’ could be ‘u’ and ‘u’ sometimes looks more like ’n’, ‘m’ or sometimes ‘i’.  So her name  could actually be, (possibly) Anne, Anina, Aveva, or plausibly Avena.

Google Translate has 'Avena' as Latin for 'Oats' a word which would have been in common usage in either Latin or as a medieval english variant, so it seems an odd name to give to a daughter.  Still, no accounting for taste as they say.

Thank you for the pointer but I'd love to know why I couldn't find it in Burke's.

Offline Cornelius88

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 20 February 20 09:11 GMT (UK) »
Just from looking up the coat of arms of Sir Thomas Ireland, I see he has the same five fleur-dis-lis design.
But I got this information from googling, and have no idea how accurate it is.
  Thank you.  As I was saying to the other poster I think my search techniques need some serious attention.

It's the possibility of a link between the Avena on the memorial and Sir Thomas Ireland that I'm looking for.  There is a published pedigree which says she was his daughter but pedigrees are notoriously unreliable so I was looking for any other information I could find.

Offline Cornelius88

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 20 February 20 09:16 GMT (UK) »
The mural alabaster is mentioned, and pictured on the Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godfrey_de_Foljambe
Missed that one as well...

However it has saved me a trip.  Also it's interesting that the inscription below is a later addition so I'm not sure how much credence can be given to it.

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Re: Heraldic Interpretation
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 20 February 20 09:38 GMT (UK) »
Burkes has indexed the family as Irland or Irrland, not Ireland!
Obviously an older spelling; from the era when spellings weren't very important?

I simply looked at the "I" section ;D

The Geni-com entry has a Private contact - might be worth a login and an email?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)