Author Topic: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please  (Read 2361 times)

Offline spurdog

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 01 March 20 12:37 GMT (UK) »
Yes chempat. 1851 and 1861 scottish cencus no traceable hits (though many variances as we now know).
That is why this item was moved to Ireland notice board, and I had no objection.

Also this script might help...

What is known
 
According to the 1881 and 1891 Thomas Heaney was born in Glasgow Scotland
 
He served in the Royal Irish Constabulary for 5 years 1 month (suggesting he “may be Irish originally”...northern Ireland....?....1/1867-3/1872....worked back on the Staffordshire service). He then moved To Stafford shire (Appointed 02/03/1872 - 6/1898...26 years 3 months) where he became a police sergeant. On retirement (i think due to “deteriorating health”....heart disease, and partial loss of power in one arm) He became part of the Staffordshire pits ( a colliery watchman....note the link to Iron worker in Dalry). He unfortunately was only there a year, when he died, (10th July 1899 - stoke on Trent...aged 51)??? leaving some 7 children and widow. The death age (On his death certificate) has since been disproved.

According to his Stafford shire sign-up record he was signed  02 Mar 1872 (at 26yr 3 months)= clocking back....12/1846...DOB????....note birth around Nov/Dec. (He served in Irish Police for 5y 1mth (Feb 1867), and should be 21 then….therefore Dec 1846. (He Died aged 52  and a half)
 
He was Married to Lisetta Harvey Rowley and they had some 10/11 children in all. There is no mention as to relatives (his siblings and ancestors), apart from His marriage Certificate dated 27 May 1878, where he mentions his father Thomas, as Deceased and a steward by trade.
 
The 1881 Census, (the first sighting, in the Staffordshire) suggests that he was 33, which (clocking back) puts him roughly born at April 1847-March 1848 give or take a year.(Ignore, see above highlighted yellow)
 
Less reliable info (Most is in here because the link to Dalry has not been proven),
Advice suggests Glasgow Scotland is “too restrictive” However a search On Family search (Latter-day saints), only pulls one Thomas Heaney between 1847 and 1849 (with a Father called Thomas) ..... there are a number of variances on Heaney..... The one is in Dalry Ayrshire, some 20 minutes by car, from Glasgow
 
Further use Of Family search suggests variants on the name Henney, Hainey, Hannay, Honney, Heaghan. These are all plausible (as people coming from Ireland possibly wanted to “hide their Irish connection” at that time)
There is a potential for a connection to Mary Smellie, but I think this does not fit, the variants in the surname have served to “muddy the water”. Mary Smellie had a son born July 1846 (Thomas- not mine)
His father would have been bn say 1817-1827-------died before 1879 (Thomas’s Marr Cert)….so aged at death circa 62 or less
 
1) The Dalry connection - or “not”
Bearing in mind that “no relatives are visible”.....in Staffordshire, this leads towards “leaving the family behind”. I think the family MAY have moved back to Ireland, hence his employment in the police service.
 
A certificate of Birth from any of the Siblings of Thomas may provide father (Thomas)/mother (Unknown...Died in childbirth, maybe).
 
The info suggests siblings
Hugh (moved at 1861 census)
Catherine ...despite variances in the spelling, moved (with Higgins at 49 Swinlees Row...Married Andrew Healey(1865?)
George
And Youngest..... Thomas
In 1851 living at 57 Svendlees Row (Svenlees is a farm building outside Dalry)
in 1861 living 45 Svendlees Row (Hugh and Catherine moved on), but apparently Catherine in the 1861 Census living at 49 Svenlees Row.
 
There was an Iron Mine in Dalry, known as Blair Pits??!!...this is where I assume Thomas Hainey (whatever spelling) senior, was working, at the time of the 1861 census. I suspect Thomas (1815) is of Irish birth
 
In 1865, a Catherine Henney married Andrew Healey at Dalry. If you look at this marriage record, you will get the names of Catherine's parents.
Andrew Healey was considerably older than Catherine and had a previous wife (Margaret) and children. The Healey family are in all subsequent Census records.

In 1861, Catherine Hainey, age 18, born Kilbirnie, was an Out Door Worker, boarding with the Higgins family at No. 49 Swinlees Row, Dalry.
In the 1861 Census, Andrew Healey (Healy, Haley), at age 38, was enunmerated at No. 53 Swinlees Row. His occupation: Drainer. His wife then was named Margaret, and there were 5 children, the 2 youngest named Margaret and Jane.
In the 1871 Census, Andrew Healey is now shown as age 40 (48?), and his wife is now Catherine Haley, shown age 32, born Dalry.
Children with them are: Margaret Haley, 15....Jane Haley, 12....Elizabeth, 5....Andrew, 3....Mary, 1..... This is all supposition, as the Link to Thomas has not been affirmed
 
Thomas Heaney does not have a Dalry connection as the father died in 1912, Thomas’s (Bn1848) father was dead at the time of Thomas’s marriage in 1878.
 
The objective
To confirm the father of Thomas, ..................Hugh or Catherine...seek birth and marriage (and certificate) of family “proving the link” Catherine’s married name. Who the mother was. Finding relatives of the siblings
 
...................
 

Offline spurdog

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 01 March 20 12:38 GMT (UK) »

2) Mary Smellie.....Monckton Ayr..... (Thomas Hannay, www.Familyhistory.org...marriage 22/07/1846)
 
3) Elizabeth Clenaghan (Wigtown Scotland)…thomas born 1846 09
 
4)Henney .....Esther McIntyre
 
5)Mother..... Jane Clark Macredie, (birth 17 Sept 1844 Stairs, Ayr, Scotland...) too early

6)Mother Margaret
From “Findmypast”
Father bn 1821
Mother Bn 1820
James bn 1842
Isabella bn 1847
Thomas (mine?) bn 1849
Mary Ann bn 1849 (twin?)
William bn 1852
Margaret Bn 1854


Mary Ann Stewart Oct 1846
 

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 01 March 20 13:04 GMT (UK) »
Re this comment- "He served in the Royal Irish Constabulary for 5 years 1 month (suggesting he “may be Irish originally”...northern Ireland....?"
The R.I.C. covered ALL Ireland before 1922 so why drag "Northern Ireland" into this?
The recommendation to join from Sub-Inspector Kitson is significant as Thomas would have to have been known to him. There might have been Sub-Inspector Kitson in Ballybough (north east Dublin in 1873 but snippet I can see from newspaper article doesn't give clear enough detail to be sure). The counties of Longford and Dublin are also significant.

It's possible, for example, that Thomas was born in Co. Longford, moved to Glasgow as a child, then returned to Ireland before joining up in Co. Dublin.

Another important clue is from Thomas' marriage certificate (if details are correct)- father Thomas Heaney, steward, deceased. Civil registration of deaths in Ireland started in 1864 (he could have died before that) but most of the ones from 1864-1878 are only indexed on Irish Genealogy although eventually they will be online (free). Having occupation as [land?] "steward" should make father easier to identify from records found. You have searched for his in Scotland already, I presume?

Until you sort out the details of his service I can't see any point in dragging up every Thomas Heaney in Scotland.

You mentioned "Longford (Abeylara I assume) is a fair distance from Dublin" earlier- why Abbeylara?

“but he may have been protestant, but fibbed to St Andrews” The St. Andrew’s record is a child’s baptism so how could he have “fibbed”? Protestant parents would not have baptised child in Catholic church. I have to say I'm not convinced the baptism for Thomas Hannah is the right one (and not because spelling of surname)

If Thomas was born in Glasgow then why do you think his father was born in Ireland?
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline spurdog

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 01 March 20 13:46 GMT (UK) »
I bring up the possibility of NI, to remind myself that yes it covers the whole of Ireland

His police record is complete.Ireland 1867-1872, then to Staffordshire 1872-1898, on retirement, due to a weak arm.
Longford Abeylara listed on Police 1872-1898 as Native county. Irish record shows Wicklow, though does not define whether it's service or residence.


Offline chempat

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 01 March 20 14:35 GMT (UK) »
There is a Sub-Inspector Kitson in Mountrath in February 1866, if we are looking for connections.

Added:
June 1865
Francis Kitson Esq, sub-inspector of police, about to be removed from this district (Tipperary) to Mountrath, Queen's County.  Kitson has been in Clonmel for more than 10 years...

Offline chempat

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 01 March 20 17:07 GMT (UK) »
Fra(nci)s Kittson appointed to Irish Royal constabulary in February 1836 age 24,
Sub-constable in 1833, so not sure when he was 24.
Tip in 1854, Queens in June 1865,
Dublin in Feb 1866.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 01 March 20 18:35 GMT (UK) »
I honestly feel like I belong to a committee but aren't notified about all the meetings so that when I do show up there are details suddenly added  :-\

Longford Abeylara listed on Police 1872-1898 as Native county. Irish record shows Wicklow, though does not define whether it's service or residence.
Going by what you've now added (far more information in his services records than the 'very basic' mentioned at the start) it would seem as though he could have been born in Abbeylara (itself or the parish) in Co. Longford, joined up in Dublin (this would explain recommendation from S-I Kitson who was serving in Dublin from 1866 and note about Longford & Dublin in records) then served in Wicklow before moving over to England.

If born in Abbeylara and R.C.- unfortunately parish registers start too late-
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0139

Roots Ireland (pay site) show their holdings for Co. Longford-
http://longford.rootsireland.ie/
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline spurdog

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Re: Thomas Heaney - Newbie, help please
« Reply #43 on: Monday 09 March 20 12:16 GMT (UK) »
yes, thanks aghadowey and all.

Lost network for days...

Noted Abbeylara, not Abeylara. Apologies for small info, when I had a lot more, i needed to be concise in my original. Did not wan't a "thesis type" of start. This was my own working sheet, so i can make "what notes I like".

Kind regards