Author Topic: Private v Public burials  (Read 542 times)

Offline Canal Boater

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Private v Public burials
« on: Monday 02 March 20 14:48 GMT (UK) »
Good Afternoon.     I have traced the grave of my great-grandfather Robert Bolton.   He was buried 24th November 1921 in plot 20/870 Kirkdale cemetery Liverpool.  However, I have noticed that he is buried in a "public" plot.   My later relatives are all buried in "private" plots.   
Were public plots used when the deceased's family had little or no financial means ??   I also assume that public graves could contain several different bodies, all interred at around the same time ??

I would appreciate some help and advice please....

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #1 on: Monday 02 March 20 14:55 GMT (UK) »
Often, yes but not necessarily, it could be the person died without their family's knowledge, for instance while away from home.

Cheers
Guy
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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #2 on: Monday 02 March 20 14:55 GMT (UK) »
In municipal cemeteries there are Purchased Graves where the applicant purchases the Exclusive Right of Burial in this grave, effectively forming a private grave and giving the family of the deceased control of any future burials in that grave. The owner of the Right must give written permission before any burial can take place in a purchased grave. The Exclusive Right has a fixed term - usually 100 years after which time control of the grave is returned to the relevant authority. Un-purchased Graves are also known as 'Common' or 'Public' graves. The relevant authority retains control of the burials in these graves. Burial Law used to require a 14 year interval between successive burials in one of these graves, (unless the deceased were from the same family), but this law has since been repealed.

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
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Offline Canal Boater

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 March 20 14:31 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your help.

Interestingly enough, my great,great grandmother Jane Bolton was also buried in a public grave on 9th October 1924 in Aintree Cemetery.  According to the records between 1st and 16th October of that month there were a total of 4 x people interred in the same plot !!    (4/1680).


Offline Blue70

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 March 20 20:31 GMT (UK) »
Most people received public burials at one time it's only really in the 20th century that private burials became more common. It wasn't necessarily because of limited finances. A decent Christian burial was all that was expected. Someone would have paid for just the burial at Kirkdale. Pauper burials were different they took place at the parish cemetery and were paid for by the parish. At that time paupers were buried at Walton Park. Robert Tressell is one famous pauper burial at Walton Park. In his case his family had money but they asked the parish to bury him so even with pauper burials it may not necessarily reflect the person's situation.


Blue     

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 04 March 20 08:08 GMT (UK) »
Most people received public burials at one time it's only really in the 20th century that private burials became more common. It wasn't necessarily because of limited finances. A decent Christian burial was all that was expected. Someone would have paid for just the burial at Kirkdale. Pauper burials were different they took place at the parish cemetery and were paid for by the parish. At that time paupers were buried at Walton Park. Robert Tressell is one famous pauper burial at Walton Park. In his case his family had money but they asked the parish to bury him so even with pauper burials it may not necessarily reflect the person's situation.


Blue     

Sorry but you are confused about private burials churchyards contain far more private grave plots than public grave plots most graves in churchyards are in fact, if not in name private plots. 
In the early 19th century many cemeteries were opened to provide an alternative to the overcrowded church graveyards. I suggest your confusion may stem from the fact that when cemeteries opened the more wealthy purchased private plots in the cemetery but the poorer classes tended to still be buried in the churchyard, skewing the figures. Having said that most cemeteries of the 19th century had a three class system of graves (First class, Second Class, Public).
The public graves being interspersed between private graves to give a less crowded appearance to the cemetery.
It is interesting to note how public graved changed in the 19th century, for instance in Leeds General Cemetery, Woodhouse Moor (opened 1835) the first public grave in the consecrated section was dug 14ft deep and contained 8 bodies, by 1837 the average was 11 bodies but in 1838 the occupancy was changed to 18 and by June 1839 24 bodies per public grave, however in the unconsecrated section the average was 5 bodies in a public grave.
I have not done any research to see if this could explain why some members of an otherwise church going families were buried in unconsecrated sections of cemeteries.

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline Blue70

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 04 March 20 10:09 GMT (UK) »
My comments relate more to cemeteries in Liverpool than churchyards in general. The statistics back this up if you look at a cemetery such as Ford Cemetery the Liverpool RC cemetery statistics are available showing the amount of public and private burials over a long period of time:-

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~liverpoolindexes/genealogy/facts.html


Blue

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 04 March 20 11:40 GMT (UK) »
My comments relate more to cemeteries in Liverpool than churchyards in general. The statistics back this up if you look at a cemetery such as Ford Cemetery the Liverpool RC cemetery statistics are available showing the amount of public and private burials over a long period of time:-

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~liverpoolindexes/genealogy/facts.html


Blue

Yes but that is for a Catholic Cemetery which is not surprising. The majority of the public in English cemeteries would be buried in a multi-denominational cemetery which would have areas of consecrated ground for C of E burials and unconsecrated ground for dissenters and all others, this ground would be consecrated or blessed at the time of the funeral if required.

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

Offline Blue70

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Re: Private v Public burials
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 04 March 20 11:49 GMT (UK) »
Context is everything. We were discussing Liverpool cemeteries. I'm not saying any more on this subject the stats support what I said. I'm not here to have arguments.


Blue